Caster Semenya, forced to take gender test, is a woman ... and a man

NY daily News ^ | Thursday, September 10th 2009, 1:50 PM

[Perdogg]

Tests show that controversial runner Caster Semenya is a woman ...and a man!

The 18-year-old South African champ has no womb or ovaries and her testosterone levels are more than three times higher than those of a normal female, according to reports.

The tests, ordered by The International Association of Athletics Federations after Semenya's 800-meter victory in the World Championships, determined she's a hermaphrodite - having both male and female organs.

[DJ MacWoW]

Yup. I read some of that. But I avoided the videos. ;-)

[MrEdd]

You have to have one of the most appropriate screen names on this board. Perhaps you/she/he/it will find yourself ridiculed on these forums for a while.

Deservedly so.

[UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide]

He/She will have the hermaphrodite’s WR anyway.

[T Minus Four]

Well, I wouldn't put it as strongly, but that's why I think merely DISCUSSING the problem, as a medical issue, should not be construed as intentionally humiliating her.

And I'm sorry for her that it likely will be terribly humiliating anyway.

[T Minus Four]

Google intersex

I did. see my post #27. Very tragic.

[al baby]

Brings new meaning to the saying “Go screw yourself”

[T Minus Four]

I avoided the videos

Me too.

[Question_Assumptions]

My take on the classification is that testicles and or a “Y” chromosome would make an athlete “male” for the purpose of competition but for purposes of social classification, I think genitalia should be the determining factor. I’m willing to call this woman a woman if she has female genitalia. As such, I can understand allowing a person who has complete sex-change surgery to be called a member of the other sex but what I think has to be stopped are people who don’t get all of the surgery done or don’t have any surgery done claiming that they belong to the other sex. I don’t want a person with a penis in the bathroom with little girls or a person with female genitals in the bathroom with little boys.

[allmendream]

Well then they would be out of the “normal” range for women as they have some sort of metabolic defect such that they produce androgens instead of estrogens.

I am still unclear on if 3X the average is within the range of what a normal woman (i.e. without any defect of syndrome) would have. I guess I could always look, I mean, I DO biomedical research for a living.....

[al baby]

Who would “hit it?” LOL Another question: How drunk would you have to be?

Ted Kennedy Drunk !!! at least

[T Minus Four]

I agree that which gender one chooses to live their life as, and which gender one choses to compete athletically as, should be seperate issues.

[aruanan]

I’m willing to call this woman a woman if she has female genitalia.

If she has female genitalia because she's an androgen resistant male (we all start out phenotypically female), she could still have an unfair advantage over other XX females in terms of power and speed. It wouldn't be any more fair than letting a surgically altered male compete in female sports.

[Question_Assumptions]

The reason why men perform better than women in athletics have to do with (A) size, (B) body fat to muscle ratios, (C) testosterone, and (D) some other body differences (e.g., wide hips and hormones make women’s knees more prone to injury). And the reason why men and women compete separately is the same reason why other sports divide athletes into weight classes. They wouldn’t be able to win competing against the men. But even pumping women full of male hormones from an early age never raised the proverbial East German weightlifter or runner to the performance levels of men.

[T Minus Four]

I still wish the article would explain what female organs she DOES have when it clearly states she has no ovaries or uterus. I mean “womb”.

[Question_Assumptions]

If she has female genitalia because she's an androgen resistant male (we all start out phenotypically female), she could still have an unfair advantage over other XX females in terms of power and speed. It wouldn't be any more fair than letting a surgically altered male compete in female sports.

Is there a reason why you deleted the first sentence of my reply that addresses precisely that point? I wrote:

"My take on the classification is that testicles and or a “Y” chromosome would make an athlete 'male' for the purpose of competition but for purposes of social classification, I think genitalia should be the determining factor."

[allmendream]

Female: 20 - 80 ng/dL Testosterone level.

Assuming a mean of 50 ng/dL (probable as these things tend to form a ‘bell curve’ distribution); this runner would have around 150 ng/dL (three times the ‘normal’ amount) which is almost twice the stated maximum of the given range for a woman.

So although variable, 3 times the mean is NOT within the normal range for a woman.

[fr_freak]

You have to have one of the most appropriate screen names on this board. Perhaps you/she/he/it will find yourself ridiculed on these forums for a while.

Deservedly so.

1) Weak-minded people, when without a real response, always go for the name.
2) I have been ridiculed on this board. Many times. It has yet to make me cry. Thanks for trying, though.

[allmendream]

Many of those stated parameters are also effected by testosterone levels, especially muscle to fat ratio.

And yes, giving testosterone to a woman will not allow her to compete with Olympic caliber athletic men; but it would sure as heck give her an advantage over other women athletes.

[Question_Assumptions]

For PCOS, "Testosterone levels may be normal (20-80 ng/dl, 0.7-2.8 nmol/l) or elevated but usually less than 200 ng/dl."

[definitelynotaliberal]

No, there isn’t. The creature also doesn’t menstruate. All of this is very well documented in Jeffrey Eugenides’ Middlesex, a boo about a hermaphrodite growing up in a neighborhood of that name in Detroit. It’s a scholarly work. It took him 8 years to write it and I learned a lot about America from it.