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To: Star Traveler

“”He absolutely won’t have any virus problems with his Macintosh computer...”

Maybe, but maybe not. While Macs are less vulnerable to random, indirect attacks, they are actually much more vulnerable to DIRECT attacks. This is because most Mac users have no protection at all and don’t bother scanning for security threats. I have a family member with a Mac that had a keystroke logger loaded up on her system and her accounts started to be broken into. She wound up having to not only entirely replace her computer, but had to change her online account passwords, all of her account numbers and passwords for bank and credit card accouts, and her email accounts. Big hassle and a big financial concern. I think I only heard part of the story of what happened.


98 posted on 08/17/2009 8:09:30 PM PDT by Kirkwood
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To: Kirkwood
Mac users have no protection at all and don’t bother scanning for security threats.

True. So what can I install to avoid something like that happening to me? That would be a living nightmare what happened to your wife. I do try to be careful, but it would be better if I did no finanancial transactions or logging into various accounts whatsoever online.

Probably should call Apple. Again.

103 posted on 08/17/2009 10:51:52 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Kirkwood
She wound up having to not only entirely replace her computer,

WHAT? Why would she have to do that. Wiping the hard drive and reinstalling is a simple task.

I have a family member with a Mac that had a keystroke logger loaded up on her system and her accounts started to be broken into.

If she had a keylogger installed on her Mac, either she or someone who had administrator access to her computer installed it. I am certain you did not hear all of the story. She better look really closely at anyone she has let have access to her computer.

While Macs are less vulnerable to random, indirect attacks, they are actually much more vulnerable to DIRECT attacks. This is because most Mac users have no protection at all and don’t bother scanning for security threats.

Not true. While some direct attacks on Mac OSX have been successful, they can be counted on the fingers of one hand... if two fingers have been chopped off. Not one of those successful attacks, all of which required some action by the targeted user, would have been prevented or even detected by any form of anti-malware. The attacks by Charlie Miller, an ex-NSA computer security expert, were not quick, even though the Mac fell in under two minutes, because he spent months searching for the vulnerability and then building an exploit with the help of two other ex-NSA experts in his company. Miller stated that his vulnerability and exploit would have worked just as well on Windows Vista or Linux as it did on the Mac because he was targeting third party apps. The Windows Vista machine fell six hours later to a fellow who did NO prior preparation. The Linux box did not fall.

There are fewer than 20 known malware for OSX Macs. 12 of those are Trojan Horses. Anti-Malware CAN protect you against a known trojan horse... but you are better protected by not downloading apps from untrusted sources.

Scanning for security threats has proven to be a waste of time on Macs... ask any of the Mac users on here. I have ClamXAV... and the only thing it has ever found were Windows viruses attached to spam emails that are not at all a threat on a Mac.

104 posted on 08/17/2009 11:33:56 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Posted using my iPhone!)
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To: Kirkwood

You were saying in regards to any possible virus problems in a Macintosh computer — “Maybe, but maybe not.”

That statement is in the same league as someone saying that they’re going to win the lottery. You can also say to that person, “Maybe, but maybe not.” LOL....

Sure, they may be *just the one* out of several million “trying” that “hits the jackpot” — but for “everyone else” it’s the *but maybe not* part that they will share with the millions of other who try to win the lottery. The won’t get the prize.

And it’s the same with viruses on the Macintosh.... a Macintosh user “getting a virus” on a Macintosh is like trying to win the lottery.... :-) They won’t get the virus. That’s the way it is in “real life” with a Macintosh user.

— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —

And then you said — “While Macs are less vulnerable to random, indirect attacks, they are actually much more vulnerable to DIRECT attacks. [ ... ] I have a family member with a Mac that had a keystroke logger loaded up on her system and her accounts started to be broken into.

Yeah..., if you’ve got someone sneaking around your computer when you’re not there and attaching hardware devices to it, or installing hidden software — sure you’re going to have a compromised computer.

And that’s something that is just as true for *all platforms* — with no platform any better or any worse than the next. There’s nothing in an operating system that is going to be effective with someone getting *direct access* to your computer, when you’re gone or are away for a while — during which time this person has that *direct access* to your computer and can do whatever they want to do with it — with either the hardware or software.

Heck!, you can plug something in between the keyboard and the computer and capture those keystrokes, then come back later, unplug it and have all the data you want... LOL...

But, we weren’t talking about people sneaking in to your house and getting on your computer and attaching devices or installing software directly on your computer, in a direct attack, when you are not around... :-)

[... and I hear the government also has agents who sneak into your house, install stuff on your computer and then leave, without you knowing it and can track what you do on the computer, too... but — again — we’re not talking about that, are we... LOL...]


111 posted on 08/18/2009 6:32:06 AM PDT by Star Traveler (The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a Zionist and Jerusalem is the apple of His eye.)
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To: Kirkwood
"This is because most Mac users have no protection at all and don’t bother scanning for security threats."

Most Mac users are probably running with private IP addresses, therefore, they have some protection. A built-in firewall is available on Mac OS X, but it is usually not needed, and it is switched off by default.

"I have a family member with a Mac that had a keystroke logger loaded up on her system and her accounts started to be broken into. She wound up having to not only entirely replace her computer, but had to change her online account passwords, all of her account numbers and passwords for bank and credit card accouts, and her email accounts. Big hassle and a big financial concern. I think I only heard part of the story of what happened."

Keylogger programs are sold for Macs. They are used typically to spy on a spouse. With physical access to the target machine, it is not difficult to get it installed. The results are sent back through e-mail. But Mac keyloggers are generally not found in the wild.

I've been running Mac OS X wide open for over ten years, with no viruses, worms or spyware - and no antivirus software. Maybe it will be necessary someday, but for now, there is no reason to install antivirus software on a Mac. Currently, the main threat is trojan horses, but even that is such a tiny threat that Mac users generally don't need to worry about it. Just use some common sense about opening e-mail attachments and heed the warnings when the Mac says it is about to start executing a program downloaded from the Internet for the first time.

150 posted on 08/19/2009 10:00:04 PM PDT by HAL9000 ("No one made you run for president, girl."- Bill Clinton)
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