Posted on 08/13/2009 12:07:59 PM PDT by P.O.E.
Incredibly, President George W. Bush told French President Jacques Chirac in early 2003 that Iraq must be invaded to thwart Gog and Magog, the Bible's satanic agents of the Apocalypse.
Honest. This isn't a joke. The president of the United States, in a top-secret phone call to a major European ally, asked for French troops to join American soldiers in attacking Iraq as a mission from God.
Now out of office, Chirac recounts that the American leader appealed to their "common faith" (Christianity) and told him:
"Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. ... The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. ... This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins."
This bizarre -- seemingly deranged -- episode happened while the White House was assembling its "coalition of the willing" to unleash the Iraq invasion. Chirac says he was boggled by Bush's call, and "wondered how someone could be so superficial and fanatical in their beliefs."
(Excerpt) Read more at wvgazette.com ...
You said — And we are to believe Chirac because...?
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I believe it, because you just can’t make this kind of stuff up... and it “fits” actually, in connection with what I had heard from other pastors and preachers, at the time, who said they were trying to let President Bush know about the prophecies of the Bible, that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has given (which He confirms will happen) — and so help President Bush understand the situation that he was in, in connection with what the Bible says.
This means to me, that several of those pastors/teachers/preachers actually “got through” to Bush and he did understand, at least some of it.
I do not trust Chirac. I do not trust a newspaper of this era. I do trust Mr. Bush.
Clearly, you aren't familiar with the prophesy surrounding Armageddon.
It would be pretty hard to give you a crash course here, but you can read this and get a good idea what end time prophecy is all about, and how it relates to whats going on today, what "gog and Magog" really means etc.
Bush wasn't nuts, but clearly Chiraq's Christianity isn't up to snuff.
http://goodnewspirit.com/goodnews.htm#anchor23455 http://goodnewspirit.com/goodnews.htm#anchor23455
A very likely explanation.
Its often hard to use an analogy or allusion across cultural gaps. Its easy to miss getting a meaning across.
One of G.W.Bush’s problems was that he did indeed lack much experience in foreign affairs, or speaking with foreigners other than Mexicans.
Our present President seems to be even worse in this respect.
I didn’t say it can’t be true. I simply said Chirac’s just another of many out-of-office hacks who’s resorted to “tell-all” tactics. And I find as much credibility in such “sources” as I do the stump in my neighbor’s yard.
The facts may be true. But I’ll retain an honest skepticism based on the source.
Sorry, Jacques Chirac is not a credible source on this.
Well, then....I guess Chirac has missed all the Islamic fanatic hyjinx during his lifetime. He must believe in the John Kerry approach: It's just a nuisance.
You said — I doubt that Jacques Chirac knew what Gog and Magog are or understood the reference; and that if Bush tried somehow to explain it to him, through a translator to boot, Bush’s meaning would no doubt have been lost on Chirac.
(And hence, Chirac’s recall of the conversation would have been garbled.)
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I doubt that Chirac knew, too — but then again, the article indicates that, which is why Chirac asked for some research into it.
After the 2003 call, the puzzled French leader didn’t comply with Bush’s request. Instead, his staff asked Thomas Romer, a theologian at the University of Lausanne, to analyze the weird appeal. Dr. Romer explained that the Old Testament book of Ezekiel contains two chapters (38 and 39) in which God rages against Gog and Magog, sinister and mysterious forces menacing Israel. Jehovah vows to smite them savagely, to “turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws,” and slaughter them ruthlessly. In the New Testament, the mystical book of Revelation envisions Gog and Magog gathering nations for battle, “and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”
Now, *just the fact* that Bush mentioned “Gog and Magog” — that’s all the context you need, because that’s about that area of the world and the battle that is coming up. So, this article is not really telling me a lot about Chirac, but more about President Bush, and that others had been able to “reach him” in getting President Bush to understand what the Bible says about the God/Magog War of Ezekiel 38/39, which is coming up in the near future.
And, actually, things are shaping up, in the world situation and the nation alliances over there, for that coming Gog/Magog war.
I run into that problem all the time. it's truely amazing how many muslims don't know what the Koran and Mohammad's hadith (says) really say.
This is largely because they learn to recite the koran in Arabic, even though it's not their language. You can turn the koran upside down for most Imams, and they wouldn't know the difference. The entire Koran is memorized.
Chiraq’s Christianity is in all likelihood effectively non-existent.
And even if he had a thorough religious education, he comes out of a religious background (Catholicism) that gives short shrift to end-times prophesy. Its just not that kind of religion, and this stuff will fall seriously flat with such an audience. You would get nowhere even with Pope Benedict, for instance, with an argument couched in those terms.
I think Boche means swine.
You said — Clearly, you aren’t familiar with the prophesy surrounding Armageddon.
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My reading of what the Bible says can be summed up from what I said on my FReep home page — pre, pre, dispensational...
That’s a good enough summary... for anyone who knows... :-)
What was it, that was in the ‘Koran’, that he didn’t know was in there but you did?
Yeah, I’m not too sure about “casting those pearls” out to swine either... LOL...
I mean, if one doesn’t understand the “basics” then what sense would it make for them. It would be better for President Bush to have explained it in terms of gaining a “Western Judeo-Christian” influence in the Middle East to stem the tide “Islam’s invasion” of the West, and especially so in France, which Chirac should have understood (at least in that context... ).
Yeah on the tag line, I like it... :-)
It’s not that we don’t understand, it’s that we don’t care. Prophets were sent to israel to change the hearts of the people, not to read God’s magic tea leaves. This is why a prophet is not without honor but in his own country; because to them he is a nag and a scold.
How could President Bush believe that Russia and Iran were working together, thats insanity!
Pray for America
It’s too bad Bush didn’t insist on having you as a member of his National Security Council.
Sorry, premature posting. That never happens. God’s time is his, not man’s. When one says the end times are near, that is of course true to the Eternal Mind, but could be hundreds of thousands or millions of years to men.
You said — But I’ll retain an honest skepticism based on the source.
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Other sources had (during that time) confirmed that President Bush was being given “information” regarding these prophecies of the Bible and how it affects Israel and the surrounding countries. I already *knew* that was happening from what I heard from those other Christian sources (two in particular that I know of).
But, what I didn’t know is how much of an effect they had on President Bush. This seems to indicate the effect to me... now...
I’m glad those other Christian sources did have an effect on President Bush.
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