Posted on 08/03/2009 4:49:38 PM PDT by real_patriotic_american
California attorney Orly Taitz filed a motion last Friday in the United States District Court, for the Central District of California, requesting authentification of a document purporting to be a copy of the original Kenyan birth certificate of Barack Hussein Obama, II, who was born at Mombassa’s Coast General Hospital on August 4, 1961.
The alleged certificate bears the signature of the deputy registrar of Coast Province, Joshua Simon Oduya, and was issued as a certified copy of the original in February 1964.
Taitz's motion, filed on behalf of the 44 plaintiffs in a federal lawsuit against President Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clintion, and others, requests the purported evidence of Obama's birth – both the alleged birth certificate and foreign records not yet obtained – be preserved from destruction, asks for permission to legally request documents from Kenya and seeks a subpoena for deposition from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Copy of Obama's Kenyan birth certificate"I filed the motion with the court asking for expedited discovery, which would allow me to start subpoenas and depositions even before Obama and the government responds," Taitz told WorldNetDaily. "I am asking the judge to give me the power to subpoena the documents from the Kenyan embassy and to require a deposition from Hillary Clinton so they will be forced to authenticate [the birth certificate].” "I'm forcing the issue, where Obama will have to respond," she said.
The lawsuit, claiming that Obama is not a “natural born citizen of the United States,” is challenging his constitutional eligibility to serve in the office of president. Plaintiffs include a number of military personnel, along with representatives Glenn Casada of Tennessee, Timothy Comerford of New Hampshire, Cynthia Davis of Missouri, Casey Guernsey of Missouri, Frank Niceley of Tennessee, Larry Rappaport of New Hampshire, Eric Swafford of Tennessee, former U.N. Ambassador Alan Keys, and former U.S. Senator Jerry O’Neil of Montana.
I suppose just about as much damage as presenting forged military records for George Bush did for the left.
Except that CBS just embarassed themselves with their forgery, they didn't submit them as evidence in court. If Taitz submits these documents and they are found to be forgeries then it'll impact her case and every future case.
She would still have to climb over Nazi Pelosi.
I thought if he was born on American soil, then he would be natural born if only one parent was a citizen.
Aside from that, I personally believe that Obama was born in Kenya.
I tend not to believe that, but it is remotely possible based on what I've read, have followed it right along and tried to remain objective.
Would he have taken his bride to Kenya when his other wife/wives were there? I know in that culture women might view polygamy differently than here. Obama, Sr. had some grant. Could he have afforded a trip and an interruption in his studies?
The other little sticky wicket I hate to bring up was that Hawaii was pretty multicultural in 1961, maybe moreso than the midwest, but biracial unions may not have been frowned upon with at least a minority few, plus it may have been an embarassment to her parents who might have tried to keep it under the radar. It may have made no difference to them at the time, as evidenced by their subsequent raising of Obama, lovingly apparently, but there may have been some social stigma connected with it as there is yet with some but much less of it.
When the left questioned the legitimacy of Bush's presidency although the reasons and circumstances were different, I didn't indulge in calling them lunatics, morons, all sorts of derogatory names and trashing, thinking that will so brand "birthers" as deranged they'll get it out of the media because it has suddently gone viral whereas they did their best to keep it under wraps. I believed and still do that they had some legitimate questions and had a right to be heard and their opinion. Hence the new tactic.
The left is branding anyone who even questions it as literally crazy or mentally ill. Did we do that? I remember lib bashing but not to that extent during the Bush years.
They don't want to look at any of it, and the best they can come up with is namecalling. That is pretty low. And I can only speak for myself but it has nothing to do with racism. I would have questions with any race. The issue is not on a par with 911 or any other conspiracy theory as there are verifiable facts, and some of them just plain don't add up because too much has been concealed.
Obama’s father may have already been married when he married Obama’s mother. Bigamy is illegal in Hawaii, but legal in Kenya. It may thus be said that it’s legally logical that his mother was in Kenya when Obama was born.
I figured that early on.
It may thus be said that it’s legally logical that his mother was in Kenya when Obama was born.
True, they could have legally been married in Kenya, but if that divorce decree is legit, why would it (a Hawaiian divorce) have been necessary? I believe US states have the power to civally (sp?) annul marriages. If the marriage occurred in Hawaii and was invalid from the gitgo, why a divorce? Procedural? Formality? Haven't seen any Hawaiian law covering a situation like that, don't even know how it would be handled in my state.
Plus that school record floating around which I've always questioned if it was faked, it claims that Obama was born in Hawaii. Why would they have lied on that IF they did and IF it isn't another forgery?
There's a lot of supposition and circumstantial conjecture that they went to Kenya but where did they get the money plus there's no convincing proof. Even Taitz is backing off asking for evaluation of the alleged Kenyan BC on another thread.
It's solely conjecture on my part, but if she was in love with the guy and given her probable adventursome spirit, she would have jumped at a chance to go and meet his relatives or for any other of several possible reasons. But there's no proof.
To be honest, I was floored when Berg came up with that one, have since thought about it and remain doubtful, really really on the fence about that part of the "reconstructed" narrative. Why do you believe so strongly apparently that he was indeed born in Kenya?
Uh oh, another mass shooting near Pittsburgh.
Won’t he just say that all he has is on the website — that there is nothing else to release? That would satisfy his millions of socialist backers.
His grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, did have a copy of Barack Obama’s birth certificate.
“I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school. It’s a short piece, with a photograph of him. No mention is made of my mother or me, and I’m left to wonder whether the omission was intentional on my father’s part, in anticipation of his long departure. Perhaps the reporter failed to ask personal questions, intimidated by my father’s imperious manner; or perhaps it was an editorial decision, not part of the simple story that they were looking for. I wonder, too, whether the omission caused a fight between my parents.”
From “Dreams From My Father” (Pg. 26 last paragraph)
Actually obama said that he found this. IMO his books were nothing more than propaganda. It's not like he cited tons of references for what he wrote or included a copy of the found BC in the book. His books were the version of his history that wanted us to believe.
Yes, I’ll 2nd that! I can see Obama being unraveled in a court case.
You wrote-
“Actually obama said that he found this. IMO his books were nothing more than propaganda. It’s not like he cited tons of references for what he wrote or included a copy of the found BC in the book. His books were the version of his history that wanted us to believe.”
“The day is drawing nearer when Barack Obama is removed from office for not being a natural born citizen. “
Would that be a congressional duty? This congress? I don’t believe they would no matter what is proven.
She'll defend him. She's a good little worker bee.
I'd be worried if I were Orly that Hillary will be in Kenya tomorrow while her consort (no, not Huma, Bill) will be grabbing headlines for bringing the two journalists home.
Misdirection. Look over there, folks.
I wonder if she'll be wearing Sandy Berger's pants.
Do you have a link to that 1952 reading of that law?
Thanks.
From another thread:
To: rocco55; Jim Robinson; Fred Nerks; null and void; stockpirate; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; ...
BP2, I know you are one of the HEAVY HITTERS on FR, but if this is true, it really hurts ! Could these DU’ers have been so clever as to date the Kenyan doc Feb 1964, right between the application for divorce and the divorce settlement ? Seems too ingenious ?
Few people know the prima facie facts tied to the Obama’s mother’s 1964 and 1980 divorces as well as a handful of us here on Free Republic. I know it probably better than most.
When I started looking at the date (Feb 17, 1964) on this new Kenyan birth certificate, I immediately started comparing it with the dates of the 1964 divorce between Obama’s mother and father – TRYING to REFUTE the Kenyan birth certificate. Was it at all PLAUSIBLE, at least based upon what we know as prima facie facts, confirmed by an independent source – such as a judge in a divorce case? If you wish to refer back to this initial comparison, the information is on Post 2,222 of the Free Republic thread “Is this really it? (re: possible Obama’s Kenyan B.C.)”.
There’s been a fair number of fake Obama documents surfacing in the days and weeks leading up to the release of the Kenyan birth certificate, quickly debunked, designed to create confusion of prima facie – so, many of us are naturally suspicious. You can cry “wolf” only so many times before others stop believing you, even though later there may truly be a wolf. That said, I’m not a forensics expert, nor have I seen the Kenya birth certificate – but I can connect dots.
Although ANY document can be faked, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that a sneaky pro-Obama “operative” came up with a fake document that also plausibly MATCHES the timeline of the 1964 Obama divorce and other events, as well as the new Kenyan birth certificate does. Anything is possible of course, but I see the Kenya birth certificate as a believable document – for various reasons that I’ll outline below.
Not all of the deductive reasoning used in Post 2,222 came from 13-page divorce decree. For example, information regarding the 10-day “knock and nail” notification for Obama SR in Boston came from work with a local Private Investigator and a clerk in a Hawaii Court records office (who will remain nameless to eschew FURTHER harassment to them from the Left). These “contacts” also explained that Marriage and Birth Certificates are NOT Public Record in Hawaii, but divorce decrees ARE Public Record. However, documents that are NOT Public Record have occasionally “popped-up” mixed in with Public Records upon modern review, due to sloppy record-keeping decades ago, as well as changes to Hawaiian privacy statutes since the cases were judged.
Additionally … there’s the issue of the missing page from the 1964 divorce papers … page 11 …
In assisting with the retrieval of the initial 8 pages a couple of weeks before Obama’s Inauguration, I and a few other researchers subsequently discovered from the clerk in Hawaii that there were 6 MORE pages, or 14 total pages total. The clerk read the index information directly from the microfiche machine over the phone when the request was placed. “14 pages total,” she said, very clearly, repeating the answer when queried several more times on the page count.
I mailed off a check for the other 6 pages to be sent. Imagine my surprise a few days later when I opened the envelope and only saw 5 pages – page 11 was missing – bringing the total page count to 13.
See the whole Obama 1964 divorce on Scribd.com or as 13 individual images below (in proper order):
Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket
Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket
I immediately called the clerk in Hawaii and asked where the extra page was. She looked, and counted, and said that there must be some mistake in the records – she counted only 13 pages that are available for reprint. I pointed out to her that the page count she sent skipped from page 10 to page 12 – page 11 was missing. To that, she suggested that perhaps the pages were simply misnumbered before they where archived into the microfiche.
I accepted her answer, not thinking much about it at the time. Perhaps it was just a clerical error in the 1960s, when hand-filed paper records and IBM punch cards were how court documents were tracked and maintained.
I have since come to learn that Obama and his team of lawyers have been working to sanitize his records since he announced that he’d run for President circa November 2004. Now in the White House, he’s still ACTIVELY blocking subpoenas for such documents as his Cambridge and Occidental College records TODAY – the same type of documents promised to be made available during his campaign. Obama and his lawyers are exceedingly adept at exploiting loopholes in Hawaiian birth certificate law to keep Obama’s past hidden from the American people.
This missing page – page 11 – very likely is a copy of the original birth certificate, based upon the prima facie timeline of the 1964 divorce. The Kenya birth certificate was likely requested on Jan 23, 1964 by either Judge King (to award custody on the next trial date), or recommended to Ann Dunham by her attorney for the ex parte divorce, where only one parent was expected to be present.
The missing page, 11, should be chronologically-numbered as all other pages were in the original docket file, by the court clerk at the time. Starting at page 8, Exhibit A is placed where it would have occurred by date in the paperwork (and appeared on microfiche), even denoting an erased, yet barely-readable “8” on both pages of the returned notification sent to Obama SR. The missing page, numbered as page 11, would likely be a page that would have been admitted to the divorce file sometime in mid- to late-February 1964 – almost as if it were an undocumented “Exhibit B”.
Here’s a very plausible timeline merging the 1964 Obama Divorce papers and new Kenya birth certificate:
Jan 20 (Mon) – divorce request is filed by Stanley Ann D. Obama
Jan 23 (Thur) – divorce orders for trial are given by Judge King at chambers (note – if the judge, or Ann Dunham’s attorney, told her to order the Kenya birth certificate, it would have been mailed 10,000 miles away, to the “Coast Province” Registrar’s office of the “Republic of Kenya”, likely arriving around the first week of February 1964 to be processed)
Jan 28 (Tue) – Gail A. Watanabe, presumably an assistant of Ann Obama attorney George Kerr, mails the notification for trial to Obama SR (her affidavit is signed Feb 3 and filed)
Jan 30 (Thur) – via Air Mail, notification of trial arrives at Obama SR’s Cambridge, Mass, address. The 10-day “knock and nail” notification would have expired on Sun, Feb 9. Therefore, the next trial date would have been automatically set, per Judge King’s instructions, for the first Tuesday, 30 days later, on March 3
Feb 10 (Mon) – allowing for a 10-day “knock and nail” notification for trial, Obama SR’s trial notification would have been retrieved by the US Post Office on this date, to be mailed back (as events turned out – UNSIGNED by Obama SR) to Hawaii as an exhibit for trial
Feb 17 (Mon) – the Obama Kenya birth certificate is signed by the “Coast Province” Deputy Registrar, to be mailed back to Hawaii for receipt by Ann Obama and/or her attorney (note: mail time would have ranged from a few days (Air Mail) to a couple of weeks (ship), arriving back in Hawaii in the last week of February to first week of March 3 (Tue). Based upon Judge King’s Jan 23 orders for the next trial date, “at 9:30 a.m. on the first Tuesday after thirty (30) days have elapsed from and after the date” that Obama SR would have been served with the notice of trial. That notification came back, unsigned, by Obama SR, so Ann’s attorneys surely requested, and received Default Judgment for the divorce in her favor for “grievous mental suffering”
Mar 5 (Thur) – trial takes place in favor of divorce in Hawaii, placing custody of Obama JR to his mother by default (note: the trial was likely rescheduled 2 days after the automatically set date of Mar 3, possibly for the convenience of the judge and/or parties)
Mar 20 (Fri) – the divorce decree is signed by Judge King
In Hawaii, birth certificates are not Public Record. If the Kenya birth certificate was a part of the divorce decree, it may have been pulled out at the end of the trial, or more recently by a watchful archivist or attorneys wishing to remove unfavorable information about Obama.
To date, despite other honest attempts to refute the Kenya birth certificate, such as dealing with when the “Republic of Kenya” came into existence as a republic have been “un-bunked.” Dishonest alterations of the Kenya birth certificate have been maliciously created by sites such as Democratic Underground, designed to discredit the Kenya birth certificate – they’ve been un-bunked as well.
Having not actually seeing the Kenya birth certificate, and it’s chain of evidence, no intellectually-honest person can say if it’s real or not. By the same token, none of us have seen or touched the short-form “Certification of Live Birth” that has appeared on Obama’s “Fight the Smears” or FactCheck.org websites.
No one can confirm the chain of evidence of Obama’s “Certification of Live Birth” that has appeared online, which is the abbreviated-version of Obama’s true, 1961, original long-form(s) “Certificate of Live Birth” and associated vital statistics records. Even the Hawaii Department of Health directly refuses to verify Obama’s online COLBs.
Hawaiian law would have allowed for Obama to have been born in a foreign country. The “Certification of Live Birth” can’t confirm if Obama has EVER been eligible to hold the office of Commander in Chief, based upon loopholes in pre-statehood, transitional and current Hawaiian statutes. Inconsistencies, such as conflicting hospitals in Hawaii that Obama, his friends and family have publicly-stated he may have been born only add to the confusion. Obama’s abstract “Certification of Live Birth” doesn’t tell us if there were ANY “certifying officials” present who independent verified the “facts” of his birth – it’s anyone’s guess.
Obama himself cannot guaranty that he was born on American soil – really, who can remember their own childbirth?! Furthermore, his mother’s whereabouts are unconfirmed, inconsistent, and unknown, from the time of Obama’s conception, until a few weeks or months after his birth.
Thus is the purpose of Medical Doctors, Nurses, Midwives and Registrars, acting as “Certifying Officials” of a birth, to ensure the integrity – or chain of evidence – of the birth certificate to be properly recorded within Vital Statistics archives. Judges presiding over divorces ALSO produce a verifiable paper trail, as we can see on the 1964 Obama divorce.
At this time, both Birth Certificates from Kenya and Hawaii lack a publicly-exhibited, independently-verifiable chain of evidence – and chain of custody. As such, the Obama Kenyan birth certificate is as strong and believable a document as the Hawaiian “Certification of Live Birth”. However, Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate possesses something the Certification does not – plausibility, based upon independent prima facie facts – the 1964 Obama divorce decree.
6,799 posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 5:22:21 AM by BP2 (I think, therefore I’m a conservative)
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