Posted on 07/05/2009 1:32:21 PM PDT by SampleMan
I would welcome fellow Freeper input on an exchange I had with the police last night.
First a little background. I've got 20 years in the military, started out my life giving police officers a great deal of respect and knee jerking to their defense. Over the course of years, however, I've lost a lot of respect for the police via watching continual police traffic violations, watching unprofessional behavior and seeing shows of petty tyranny over their fellow citizens.
Although I'd still like to be wholeheartedly pro-law and think the way to get respectable enforcement officers is to demand professionalism, I find that my opinions here on FR often gets me labeled a "cop hater". Unfortunately, I'm quickly becoming callous to that particular "insult".
So here is my experience from last night. I took my daughters to see the fireworks downtown. Being crowded I sat them up on a 5' tall brick pillar with a 36' flat square top. Shortly after I had two police officers approach me and rudely demand to know if those were my children. I don't react well to rude. Anyway I quickly claimed them and was told, again rudely, to remove them from the pillar. Now this pillar is not on public property, so I asked them if the property owner (CSX railway) had complained, "No" then I asked them if the property owner had asked them to keep people off the pillar, "No". I then told them that I didn't understand the legality of their request. This is when they both puffed up like peacocks.
I was then informed that "They" were making the complaint. At this point I told them that I would comply (and started lifting my girls down), but that they had no basis to make a complaint and were abusing their authority. They didn't take this well and the short man then started screaming that he had the authority as a public servant, to which I calmly pointed out that no one in the public had voiced a complaint, that in fact I was the public, and I failed to see how he was being my servant.
My children had now been on the ground for a while, but apparently frustrated they then began accusing me of endangering my children's safety. To which I calmly acknowledged their opinion, and then asked if they were familiar with the legal precedence of parental authority in such matters.
This is where they both appeared to want to cuff me, so I pointed out that I had complied with their dubious orders, but did not intend to kow tow to their logic. They moved about 20' away and glared at me until the fireworks were over.
Now let me be clear, if anyone from CSX had asked me, or if the officers had conveyed that CSX wished for people to stay off, I would have complied without complaint. My beef is essentially that they took it upon themselves to create a problem where none existed and approached me like a couple of bullies in the school yard. Perhaps it’s just my age or a push back to the totalitarian nature of our new Federal Government, but I'm in no mood to play the role of the sheep.
OK fire away folks. I'm sure a few of you think that they should have tazed me and put my kids in protective custody for the night.
traffic cops are a-holes, so were these guys. I’d file a complaint with internal affairs. At least that will get you an interview with their watch comander and you can speak your mind directly to their boss. Rude is not allowed. Even if nothing happens there will be a nice little check mark on their records. Too many check marks makes for a nice little record of complaints should something bigger happen.
So do you think posting a thread that pretty much dares others to fight with you does much for your argument?
> Don’t read much?
I had the same thought as al baby. SampleMan wrote:
>> Being crowded I sat them up on a 5’ tall brick pillar with a 36’ flat square top.
A 36 FOOT flat square top is a pretty wide pillar. I’m sure he meant 36”
So as it happens, al baby reads more carefully than you do.
The Police Reserves?? Citizens on Patrol?? Retirees?? All of the above??
Several positive interactions over time, but as often as not, the attitude that you experienced. I had great respect until I became an older adult....it was then I began to notice. Seems as though they encounter so many dirt bags, they tend to treat all they encounter the same.
Just plain ole regular local cops.
No actually I took the context of what he was saying. Context is important especially in informal communications like this.
Zeroing in on the 36’ was a pointless argument and quite petty.
You must be hitting the sauce this week end. I let that one slide. smoochs
> Zeroing in on the 36’ was a pointless argument and quite petty.
Three feet is still pretty wide. It’s wider than the leather office chair I’m sitting on at this moment. I think he made that point to demonstrate that this pillar was not a narrow pole from which the kids could fall easily. It was (by extrapolation) probably quite safe for them to be there.
I too have over 20 years in the Army, but I know that cops are people too. CSX property is always “off limits”. If it was near the end of their shift - or even after their shift on overtime who knows what they had to put up with all day. How easy is it to maintain a calm polite demeanor all day? There were times before I retired that I was expected to be that way, but it wasn’t easy.
I have encountered cops who were pure A-holes, but most were decent people just trying to do their job. Even with the A-holes I have always been polite. It doesn’t do any good to argue with a cop - save that for court. After I retired and went back to collage I had to take a few police science courses. There’s something called “The Matt Dillon Syndrome”, some cops are so into the “us and them” world they just can’t relate to regular people. It really doesn’t help to argue with them. Just suck it up. It’s not easy, but civilized.
No it points to the validity of the entire story my little friend
I agree that if you were on private property they had no right to tell you what to do. Every time a child gets hurt, it's not neglect or endangerment. Should my parents have been arrested for endangerment when, unknown to them, I climbed one our tall pine trees in our backyard as a young girl because I could have been hurt?? You were standing right by your children watching over them!
Do you own the businesses that you go into? No, so don't go in. Still sound logical? CSX had opened up their parking lot and their outside areas graciously to the public. I wasn't doing anything to damage the large 36 inch pillar, and they voiced no concern over it.
9 and 11.
Even if nothing happens there will be a nice little check mark on their records. Too many check marks makes for a nice little record of complaints should something bigger happen.
My experience was when I confronted the cops, I experienced retaliation in a traffic stop. I spend my life as far from them as possible.
Even if nothing happens there will be a nice little check mark on their records. Too many check marks makes for a nice little record of complaints should something bigger happen.
My experience was when I confronted the cops, I experienced retaliation in a traffic stop. I spend my life as far from them as possible.
Even if nothing happens there will be a nice little check mark on their records. Too many check marks makes for a nice little record of complaints should something bigger happen.
My experience was when I confronted the cops, I experienced retaliation in a traffic stop. I spend my life as far from them as possible.
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