Posted on 07/05/2009 1:32:21 PM PDT by SampleMan
I would welcome fellow Freeper input on an exchange I had with the police last night.
First a little background. I've got 20 years in the military, started out my life giving police officers a great deal of respect and knee jerking to their defense. Over the course of years, however, I've lost a lot of respect for the police via watching continual police traffic violations, watching unprofessional behavior and seeing shows of petty tyranny over their fellow citizens.
Although I'd still like to be wholeheartedly pro-law and think the way to get respectable enforcement officers is to demand professionalism, I find that my opinions here on FR often gets me labeled a "cop hater". Unfortunately, I'm quickly becoming callous to that particular "insult".
So here is my experience from last night. I took my daughters to see the fireworks downtown. Being crowded I sat them up on a 5' tall brick pillar with a 36' flat square top. Shortly after I had two police officers approach me and rudely demand to know if those were my children. I don't react well to rude. Anyway I quickly claimed them and was told, again rudely, to remove them from the pillar. Now this pillar is not on public property, so I asked them if the property owner (CSX railway) had complained, "No" then I asked them if the property owner had asked them to keep people off the pillar, "No". I then told them that I didn't understand the legality of their request. This is when they both puffed up like peacocks.
I was then informed that "They" were making the complaint. At this point I told them that I would comply (and started lifting my girls down), but that they had no basis to make a complaint and were abusing their authority. They didn't take this well and the short man then started screaming that he had the authority as a public servant, to which I calmly pointed out that no one in the public had voiced a complaint, that in fact I was the public, and I failed to see how he was being my servant.
My children had now been on the ground for a while, but apparently frustrated they then began accusing me of endangering my children's safety. To which I calmly acknowledged their opinion, and then asked if they were familiar with the legal precedence of parental authority in such matters.
This is where they both appeared to want to cuff me, so I pointed out that I had complied with their dubious orders, but did not intend to kow tow to their logic. They moved about 20' away and glared at me until the fireworks were over.
Now let me be clear, if anyone from CSX had asked me, or if the officers had conveyed that CSX wished for people to stay off, I would have complied without complaint. My beef is essentially that they took it upon themselves to create a problem where none existed and approached me like a couple of bullies in the school yard. Perhaps it’s just my age or a push back to the totalitarian nature of our new Federal Government, but I'm in no mood to play the role of the sheep.
OK fire away folks. I'm sure a few of you think that they should have tazed me and put my kids in protective custody for the night.
I’d have told them to piss off, let them arrest me, and then sued their asses off.
I hate cops.
If your account is true (and I have no reason to think it’s not), those cops were power-tripping jerks.
You set a good example for your children, I believe. They shouldn’t be taught to mindlessly obey orders from anyone.
And what an auspicious day to do so!
I saw many cops not bothering anyone yesterday. I was even parked in a no parking area and cooking hot dogs on the lawn of the post office.
But schoolyard bullies will be schoolyard bullies, even if they have a badge and a gun and a card.
So I avoid public venues. Much easier to S3 when you are out of the public eye.
/johnny
Did you get their names and badge numbers? That’s the sort of fight that you will not win without names and badge numbers. Witnesses are also useful.
You don’t have to be rude to get this information, either: just ask nicely and they are obligated to give this information. If asked why you want it, just say that it is your policy to collect this information whenever you have an interaction with the police.
From the sounds of it, they were looking for someone to pick on because they are bullies. You fit their bill nicely. I don’t think you could have avoided the confrontation, and I’m not sure there was much you could have said that would have changed their demeanor. Perhaps you gave them a bit of sass what played into their hand, but they were expecting that IMO, and it wasn’t serious sass. You didn’t call them @ssholes (which they were) for example.
My personal policy is to always be polite, compliant and respectful, and to always take names and badge numbers. And where possible, have witnesses to every interaction.
Was it your pillar no then get of the dam thing. it was one big pillar being 36 feet
IMO, how reasonable this was depends quite a bit on the on the age of the children - a twelve year old on a ledge 5’ off the ground might be reasonable, a 3 year old in the same position, not.
From your description it sounds as if you were absolutely right
lol.
you got good cops in your area.... or lazy ones at any rate
There’s two people you can never win an argument with- a cop and a bouncer. I think a lot of cops suffer from burnout- they deal with the scum of the earth and they eventually reach a point where they’re impatient even with average, law abiding citizens. I have a feeling the one thing that really sets them off is the “constitutional scholar”- the citizen who starts questioning the legality of a relatively innocuous police order. Admittedly, they were jerks by being so rude, but sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. You shoulda just pulled them aside and told them you would have appreciated it if they had been a little more polite- especially in front of your kids. The cops were wrong, but you were asking for trouble.
I think you should find a new way to blow off excess testosterone.
You think they wanted your kids down off the pillar because they like throwing their weight around, but did it ever occur to you that they deal every day with injured children with drunk and or stupid parents who only took their eyes of the kiddies for a second?
I’m sure they caught your confrontational vibes from the get go, even though you have convinced yourself that you were the soul of reasonableness.
You don’t like cops and it comes through loud and clear and then you whine when they act like they don’t like you either. Surprise, surprise.
You want to make a difference in law enforcement, try being their friends, socialize with them and their families. Pray for them and support them in staying humanized and identified with the best parts of the community instead of relegating them to and treating them like the worst part of humanity.
A couple jack booted thugs, the likes of which are infesting our police forces. Little better than gang-bangers.
That said, I’d save such confrontations for when your children aren’t around to get caught in the “crossfire.” For example, I’ve had friends arrested for less. In this case, that would subject your children to the dubious authority of CPS...
“Was it your pillar no then get of the dam thing. it was one big pillar being 36 feet”
Don’t read much?
Seems like a reasonable request. It wasn’t your pillar.
SnakeDoc
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