Posted on 06/16/2009 8:03:15 PM PDT by murron
Actually I’ve been hoping for some lib with the class of, say, a Sean Penn or a Jeanine Garofolo to go on CBS live and drop some F-bombs defending Letterman. Get CBS hit with a few hundred K more in fines over this deal, that’d be perfect.
I want to play the Devils advocate here.
First, let me say that I rarely watch him, actually, not for years.
Sometimes he’s funny. Sometimes he’s not.
Now, the joke was in bad taste, no doubt. Even if we all agree to that, I’m having a hard time with all the attacks on him and the calls to apologize or him be fired or whatever.
First, it was a joke. A joke, folks. Jokes by themselves are understood to not be “reality”.
Second, why should he not now apologize for every joke he ever told? Certainly, she is not the first one he has made uncomfortable.
Third, she is in the public eye, and is therefore fair game of sorts. Like it or not, America has a long, long tradition of politics where jokes and comments and subtle implications are part of the landscape. Simple searches of historical newspaper political cartoons, etc will turn up tons of stuff that was way, way, way more scandalous than this incident.
Fourth, and this is my opinion, I for one want leaders who can take the heat. If they bend or break when Letterman says a few wisecracks, how are they going to react if Russia decided to send 3 nuke subs our way and our satellites detected them arming the warheads?
Now there are statements like “Should politicians families be immune” and stuff like that.
NO WAY!!
Remember the whole “slippery slope” doctrine, folks? Remember when in order to get a divorce, people had to prove adultery, or physical abuse or whatever?
Now we have “no fault” divorce. Have things gotten better?
In fact over time, comedians have been some of the best at pointing out the inconsistencies and contradictions and even outright lies that politicians have foisted on us.
Yeah, Letterman deserves a kick in the behind. And if a few sponsors balk, that’s probably not a bad thing.
But the whole situation has been over-reacted to.
JMHO.
I am also bothered by the fact that a reference to Bristol being "knocked up" is offensive on its own terms, and that this fact is being obscured by the Willow references. Not only did he suggest that a young woman who made a mistake is a slut; he said Bristol's mother was a slut and that Bristol was essentially a prostitute who would interest Elliot Spitzer. The continuous comments about 14-year old Willow obscures the fact that Letterman's remarks were classless and over the line, regardless of who he was referring to. Those remarks should have caused just as much outrage if he had used Bristol's name in the so-called "joke". After Letterman's non-apology, I think Palin should have said "well now that I know he only thought my 18-year old is a slut and prostitute and that I look like a slut, I guess it's okay now..."
I also think this story has run its course. Letterman and the left have been shown to be coarse and cruel, and that is enough. Letterman is going to emerge as a martyr soon. Remember we will get no help from the Obamunist networks.
No need to play devil’s advocate. If you watched Letterman and the rest of the state run media during the Presidential campaign and the way they all treated Sarah up to this day there comes a time when enough is enough. And now was that time. If not now, then when? When he tells a few more sexual jokes about her and her children? Letterman has become what the media represents and this is why the heat is on ol’ Dave.
I would have to disagree. Giving back to the libs some of same is a good thing. Sauce for the goose, &ct...
They are squealing about the reaction, and some of the squishy right are whining... but that's never the way it goes when the shoe is on the other foot.
So I'm happy to stand here on the elevator with my heel dug into the toe of the oppressor behind me until we get to the top floor.
Smile. ;) It's all good.
/johnny
Great article by Farber.
Maybe it's not the media's fault. Sometimes I think Americans (or enough of us to make it profitable) enjoy the crassness, and the media merely supplies ample quantities daily.
“First, it was a joke.”
No, it was NOT actually a joke. It was a political attack on a leading conservative leader that was designed to boost Letterman’s ratings with his liberal viewers at a time when Conan O’Brien is struggling over at NBC. If you think that the selection of the “jokes” for late night monologues are picked out of thin air just to make people laugh, you are naive. The final selection of jokes for each night is a serious business decision with careful political consideration. Why do you think that NO obama jokes are ever made? Is it because obama is not funny or because of politics?
“Second, why should he not now apologize for every joke he ever told?”
This was an attack on the politics of the Governor by directly attacking her child. Something new and distasteful, even for Letterman. The fact that Letterman even agreed it was distasteful and apologized, shoots down your point.
“Third, she is in the public eye, and is therefore fair game of sorts.”
Fair enough, but this was an attack on her child. Why not attack the Governor’s politics instead her child?
“Fourth, and this is my opinion, I for one want leaders who can take the heat.”
The Governor stood up for our shared principles as well as standing up for her family, so what is your point?
First again, let me say this. I very much appreciate the tones fellow FReepers who have rebutted me. Too often, way, way too often, FR responses consist of somebody disagreeing with you by calling you a mule or some kind of body part.
FR was in the past a place where there was alot of serious discussion and debate, which was a very good thing.
Now, I’m not defending Letterman. And no doubt, people being outraged is just as much a part of the process as was his comments themselves, no matter how idiotic.
My point is that “Freedom of speech” is also freedom for somebody to say something we don’t like.
In fact this entire episode seems to me to play in to the hands of the liberals. Letterman said something that made somebody feel bad!! Boo Hoo!! He said something about a 14 year old!!! He’s gonna effect her self esteem!!!
I may be wrong, but that certainly sounds to me like the liberal mentality of looking at things.
I just think having people who have a wide berth about things to say (correct or incorrect) is important to the Republic. And the minute we decide we offended somebody, so that means they should be off limits, the next minute, they will arrest your butt for something else you said or did.
Slippery slope. Call Lettermen a jerk and get on with life. Turn the freakin tube off! Not hard to do.
Think about this for a second... way, way more people in the US learned EVERYTHING THEY KNEW about a certain subject from watching late night tv than the ones who ever read any parts of the congressional reports.
Ms. Lewinsky
regards,
djf
You just refuted the rest of your own post pretty effectively there.
Remember the phrase "...and I can see Russia from my house!"
Not Sarah Palin. Tina Fey. Most people really think that Sarah said that, and therefore dismiss her as an idiot.
And yet such remarks which are designed and intended (particularly when part of what Limbaugh calls a "journalistic front") to take out the reputation and credence of a conservative.
Remember the Saturday Night Live skit where the New York Times staffer suggests that the Palin family engaged in incest?
Why did they suggest that about the Palins? Have they ever suggested that about ANY other candidate for President or Vice-President, in all of US History?
Why doesn't Letterman tell a joke or Mel Reynolds (former US Congressman, Democrat, from Chicago) having sex with one of Obama's daughters? (And then of course, her "not being punished with a baby.")
Oh, and in case you forgot, Mel Reynolds was a US Congressman from Chicago, has a Master's from Harvard, and is a Rhodes Scholar...and still lost his career over *CONVICTIONS* of having sex with an 16-year-old intern. For real, not just "jokes" on Saturday Night Live or Letterman. But somehow to mention facts, if the person involved happens to be black, still opens one up to the spurious charge of "that's racist!" So, if you want another example, about Gerry Studds (Democrat, Massachusetts, censured by Congress for doing a 17-year-old page) doing Letterman's *own* son?
The double standard is what allows liberals Communists to take and maintain power.
And this is why continuing past the point at which the rubble bounces (to paraphrase Winston Churchill, not Ward) is vital. To borrow counter-culture language, we are "consciousness raising" (gaining mindshare in marketing-speak), we are "sending a message" and "making a difference".
This oppositional behaviour is the very currency of the left; it is the only thing they understand; and they have counted on the acquiescence of the right for too long.
Cheers!
But it goes both ways.
I think anyone would have a hard time arguing that Bill Clinton was not the most joked about president in recent history.
Monica... Hillary... Jennifer Flowers... his real estate deals, his sexual conquests.
I totally agree (and never contested) that the media tends to have a liberal viewpoint.
But even that fact, BY ITSELF, is not a reason to shut it down or silence it.
After all, all the great generals from history will tell you the same thing: You need to know your enemy. You need to know what he is thinking.
Jokes about Palin and her children are slander and libel, and spurious allegations of pedophilia (Willow / A-Rod) or wishes for rape (Sandra Bernhard's comments about blacks in Manhattan gang-raping Sarah, the Playboy "Hate-F*ck" article -- which was a theme on the left going back to the Vice Presidential debates).
Equating that to jokes about a sitting president receiving oral sodomy *IN THE OVAL OFFICE* (+) and then suborning perjury to cover it up, is beyond the pale.
(+)...oh, and if you dig around, I think you can find mention of Clinton performing anilingus on Monica Lewinsky. If just *one* comedian had mentioned that, and then said, "That's where he got his sh*t-eating grin", Clinton's career would have been OVER.
Cheers!
This is a a real war.
It is taking place in the arena of words and images right now, but it is war.
I can accept that on the first day, the day with the A-Rod "joke", DL and his writers might have heard that SP was at the game with her "daughter" and assumed it was Bristol.
IMHO (and that of at least a few of us) it would still be un-called-for.
The next day, when it was all over the news that the "daughter" was actually Willow, DL "joked" about her being with Spitzer (i.e. being a prostitute).
Once is a mistake. Twice is deliberate.
To my knowledge, DL has yet to even seem to apologize either to SP or to the Honourable Convocation of Flight Attendants for the whole "slutty" thing.
DL seems to be "apologizing" piecemeal just as much as he thinks from day to day will get him off the hook.
First Letterman claimed he thought the 18 year old was at the game. Then he claimed that he thought Sarah and her husband attended the game without any of their children.
I'm not as gullible as you.
Besides, Don Imus also apologized.
The Libs set the rules; let's play by them.
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Nonsense.
All that is "clear" is that Letterman's team took a week to figure out an excuse that he thought might make his insult less offensive.
Sometimes actions have consequences. If the Dixie Chicks ever decide to be candid and honest they can tell you all about it.
A television personality can say what they want, but they risk being fired at their company's convenience when they get too "edgy."
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For people stuck in a bad marriage, I'd say yes.
And, assuming you are a Conservative, why is having government force people to stay in an unhappy marriage a good thing? Why or how is it even any of government's business?
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