Targeting Lost Causers

Old Virginia Blog ^ | 06/09/2009 | Richard Williams

[Davy Buck]

My oh my, what would the critics, the Civil War publications, publishers, and bloggers do if it weren't for the bad boys of the Confederacy and those who study them and also those who wish to honor their ancestors who fought for the Confederacy?

[usmcobra]

So far, I have been unable to refind the quote I wanted but I did find some interesting quotes such as "Secession is nothing but revolution"

and this....

God alone can save us from our folly, selfishness and short sightedness. The last accounts seem to show that we have barely escaped anarchy to be plunged into civil war. What will be the result I cannot conjecture. I only see that a fearful calamity is upon us, and fear that the country will have to pass through for its sins a fiery ordeal. I am unable to realize that our people will destroy a government inaugerated by the blood and wisdom of our patriot fathers, that has given us peace and prosperity at home, power and security abroad, and under which we have acquired a colossal strength unequalled in the history of mankind.

I wish to live under no other government, and there is no sacrifice I am not ready to make for the preservation of the Union save that of honour. If a disruption takes place, I shall go back in sorrow to my people and share the misery of my native state, and save in her defence there will be one soldier less in the world than now. I wish for no other flag than the “Star spangled banner” and no other air than “Hail Columbia.” I still hope that the wisdom and patriotism of the nation will yet save it.

[Non-Sequitur]

According to the “Official Records” and authors such as Klein, the Southern leaders suspected that Lincoln had ordered as many as 11 ships, several hundred soldiers, munitions, and war materiel to be sent to Southern ports.

So what do you want me to say? That the confederate leadership was stupid? Starting a war with the U.S. should confirm that more than anything I could say.

Are you now admitting that Lincoln ordered that and sent last minute notice to the Governor of SC?

I have never denied that arms and munitions were on the ships, along with food and supplies. But I also believe that, in accordance with Lincoln's letter, had the South not been so hell-bent for war then only the food and supplies would have been landed. Had the fleet arrived with the fort under attack, and had the opportunity permitted, then the men and munitions would have been landed.

The whole question of peace or war was in the hands of Jefferson Davis. We know what path he took.

[Non-Sequitur]

Lincoln was collecting taxes by force of arms.

Oh bullsh*t. Tariffs are applied and revenue collected where the goods are landed, which is why the Charleston Customs House was located at the docks on East Bay Street. Sumter was an army post in the middle of the harbor, miles away from the docks and the businesses. Only a complete idiot would ever mistake it for a customs house or tariff collections point.

And besides, Lincoln continued on to say, "The mails, unless repelled, will continue to be furnished in all parts of the Union." Next you'll be claiming that Sumter was really a post office.

[Non-Sequitur]

Then show a source that proves that a letter to the Governor was sent and signed by the President.

I have, which you have never bothered to read. In the link I provided earlier it states that the message to Chew was in an envelope signed by Lincoln. Later in the same link it references Chew's April 8 Report where he confirms he met with the governor, gave him the message and delivered the written letter.

Happy?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

inasmuch as you are "so curious" about other people's academic background, it only seems fair that you reveal yours completely.

I'm not curious about peopacademic background. I really don't care. I see the evidence of peoples' intelligence and education here on these boards and that's all I care about. I know people with no college at all who could run rings around any of us on knowledge of the Civil War, and I know PhD's who don't know squat about history.

The difference is that I don't name drop my college experience, I don't cite what some unverifiable professor told me and claim it's better evidence than what can be found in books, and I don't change my story about what university I attended. In short, I don't bring it up, you do.

What I will tell you is that I have a liberal arts BA from a large private college.

I'll also tell you that I was a contestant on "Jeopardy" in 1994.

[PeaRidge]

You said: "There's no reason to believe anything other than what Lincoln told the governor of South Carolina--that if the landings were unopposed only food supplies would be landed."

You wouldn't last a week in any man's army with that type of mindset.

The Governor, Davis, and Beauregard would have been foolish beyond belief to do as you say.

There were strong reasons to believe two things. First that Lincoln was sending ships. The second was that troops and war material were on board. Everything else was uncertain.

The leader of an organization sending warships to your port is not to be considered reliable. Besides the note that Chew delivered was not verifiable and was unreliable at best.

Supplies would be landed and taxation would be initiated.

You said: "Not having a copy of Klein's book handy, I'm not going to argue one way or the other, but I've never heard that information anywhere else.

You do have Google don't you? Why would it occur to you that just because you "have not heard that information", that is does not exist. Don't be so arrogant. Here is what you would have easily found.

[PeaRidge]

You know, stand, I was thinking that exact same thing this morning.

What is the benefit of reasoned exchange with Neanderthals?

I will soon take leave of this nonsense.

[central_va]

It is clear that these neo-Yankees will take it from the Marxist pole as long as it is sheathed in a Constitutional prophylactic.

[PeaRidge]

You said: "Lincoln informed Pickens of his intention well before the ships ever left New York."

Is that another outright canard or are you just mistaken?

Lincoln's messengers, Robert S. Chew and Captain Theodore Talbot, arrived in Charleston in the early evening, around 6 p.m., on Monday, April 8, 1861. Here

That is April 8!

On that very same morning, April 8, the armed Coast Guard revenue cutter, Harriet Lane, put out to sea from New York with sealed orders.

here

The next day after the Chew visit , Tuesday, April 9, the steam transports Illinois and Baltic got to sea.

[PeaRidge]

You most certainly did misrepresent by changing the context and meaning.

Then when you were exposed, you deny and then race to set up another straw man subject >>> "demand on the part of the Davis government and the second made it clear that there was no offer to pay for any of the property they had stolen".

Outright nonsense and evasion on your part.

[PeaRidge]

You have been adamant that secrecy did not exist because Lincoln allegedly used Chew to communicate news of the impending invasion.

Lincoln was exerting great secrecy.

You said: “And this is Lincoln's ‘super secret’ plan for invading Charleston? The one he informed Governor Pickens on?”

Then explain this:

Order of the President of the United States to the Commandant, Navy Yard, New York.

The fitting out of the USS Powhatan

Executive Mansion, April 1, 1861

Sir: You will fit out the Powhatan without delay. Lieutenant Porter will relieve Captain Mercer in command of her. She is bound on secret service, and you will under no circumstances communicate to the Navy Department the fact that she is fitting out.

Abraham Lincoln

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9404E4D9153CE433A25753C1A9679C94669ED7CF

[PeaRidge]

So, you are admitting that Anderson threatened to fire on civilian shipping in the harbor of Charleston.

[PeaRidge]

To decide on a tactic of starvation, then Beauregard would have to know the extent of the current food supply.

He did not. The “tactic” of starvation was contrived by Lincoln and the newspapers.

[PeaRidge]

That was a solemn feeling shared by many.

[BroJoeK]

"evidently, the SOLE reason that the DAMNyankees did NOT kill MILLIONS of southern POWs & innocent civilians was that the technology to do it didn't exist then.

instead, the DAMNyankee war criminals had to confine their WAR CRIMES to MURDERING several THOUSAND prisoners of war, whom they DENIED MEDICAL ATTENTION TO,DROWNED, BLUDGEONED, SHOT, BAYONETED, STARVED TO DEATH, ETC. "

check it out:
The number of northerners who died in southern POW camps was 30,218.
The number of southerners who died in northern POW camps was 25,976.

Civil War POW deaths

[PeaRidge]

Another of your misrepresentations....>>> Starting a war with the U.S.

Absolute and utter nonsense. The people of the city and the duly elected and appointed members of the Confederacy were protecting the harbor from and invasion by rendering Ft. Sumter unnecessary to the Union.

Alexander H. Stephens: “it is not he who strikes the first blow, or fires the first gun that inaugurates or begins the conflict." Rather, the true aggressor is "the first who renders force necessary."

[usmcobra]

Don’t confuse him with the facts, he gets really irate when confronted with reality.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

PeaRidge, you may be familiar with NS, but in case you aren’t I’d like to save you time. She has zero interest in discussing facts or anything of substance. She is quite simply and idiot.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

The only truth as it relates to you is that you are a coward with a room temperature IQ. You don’t have brains or balls.

[usmcobra]

Alexander H. Stephens: “it is not he who strikes the first blow, or fires the first gun that inaugurates or begins the conflict." Rather, the true aggressor is "the first who renders force necessary."

Isn't that like saying that a woman that says no to a rapist has it coming? Or that peaceful protesters that fails to follow police orders deserves to have their heads bashed in because they render force necessary?