What of Freemasonry?

The "Net" | May 23, 2009 | logic 'n reason

[Logic n' Reason]

I have become very curious about the Freemasons and freemasonry in general.
How does it "fit in" with the group of Christian religions...how about islam? What are the views and opinions of those at this site?

[Americanexpat]

At least I won’t have to associate with self rightous idiots.

[gscc]

Yes we will all be judged and made to answer for our sins. The Church, as Christ’s bride, should remain pure. The Chancellor or president of Notre Dame just thumbed his nose at the Church, Catholic politicians have done so for years and the Roman Catholic Church does nothing. Sin such as this is a stain and the Church should be cleansed of unrepentant sinners.

[Logic n' Reason]

One would hope....

Now go away.

[mcswan]

Your point about religious wars is well taken, but you chose two religions, Islam and Western Christianity, which I think offer two very different examples. Christianity did indeed go through a period of extreme intolerance and violent repression of any who disagreed, resulting in devastating wars. The most extreme intolerance and resort to violence came when the Church was actually the secular government as well as Christ’s bride on earth (medieval Europe.) Christianity has since gone through a reformation which, I believe, has returned it to more closely resemble the early Christian church, based on Christian love, mercy, compassion, an understanding of our own imperfections, etc. Islam has never gone through such a reformation, and, in fact, has gotten more extremely intolerant and violent through the centuries (refer to Irshad Manji.)

To understand the differences between Christianity and Islam we need to examine the behavior of the central figures, Christ and Mohammad. Christ’s life was one of humility, service, and sacrifice, even unto death; Mohammad’s life was one of warrior conquest, and subjecting others to Islam by force. Violence, though common through the church’s history, is a distortion of Christ’s message, while violence within Islam is in exact compliance with Mohammad’s message. Two very different approaches to piety.

But as to Freemasonry, our philosophical system of emphasizing morality is entirely separate from these religions, and all others. We go to great lengths to emphasize that we ARE NOT a religion, but, rather a fraternity for men who are trying to improve ourselves in order to live our lives with greater moral behavior. Our relationships with God are our own, determined by our own faiths, and are in no way determined by Freemasonry.

Believing that Freemasonry is anti-Christian, or an alternative religion, is based on a very superficial, and incorrect, understanding of our fraternity

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

The Chancellor or president of Notre Dame just thumbed his nose at the Church

Actually he thumbed his nose at many bishops, for which he will be corrected, in the Church's good time, which likely is already going on privately.

Catholic politicians have done so for years and the Roman Catholic Church does nothing

I am unsure how you know what goes on in the confessional, but chastisement is becoming more public all of the time.

[Tennessee Nana]

Logic n’ Reason # 26
They are a secret society, probably founded 300 years ago, but with their own mythology which claims they built the Egyptian pyramids and/or the Temple of Solomon.

tessalu #
I came to believe in the end that Free Masonry, does believe in the Ancient Egyptian book of the dead .. So, “the Book of the Dead” is trying to provide a way to heaven as I see it, but there is no other way than through Jesus Christ.
_____________________________________________

Mormonism borrows heavily from these beliefs...

The founder of mormonism, Joseph Smith, joined the Masons and went up to a 32th degree or thereabouts the very first day..

1. The mormons have a secret society...their “temple” ordinances are secret and and they swear to the death not to reveal them..

2. The book of Mormon includes the claim that the charactors set out to build a “temple of Solomon” just like the one back in Jerusalem..

3. Much homemade mythology is included in mormonism..

4. Through their “temple work” which are ordinances for the dead, they believe that they can “provide a way to heaven” which excludes and bypasses Jesus and the Cross..

5. Joey Smith pretended to translate an Egyptian “Book of the Dead” and called it the Book of Abraham...

6. Their secret handshakes etc are copied from masonic rituals..

etc

They use this folowing secret phrase in their temple ordinances...

Pay Lay Ale

[mjp]

[Pyro7480]

Uh no.

Declaration on Masonic Associations (Quaesitum est)

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous code.

This sacred congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore, the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the declaration of this sacred congregation issued Feb. 17,1981. [1]

In an audience granted to the undersigned cardinal prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this sacred congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Nov. 26, 1983

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect

[Pyro7480]

You could be a Christian, Buddhist, Jew or other as long as you beleive in GOD.

Yes, and that is part of the problem. That is sort of a relativism, that all religions are at the same level, when, in fact, that is false.

[BelegStrongbow]

Every statement you make is palpably false. I am a Master Mason and, with no rancor whatsoever, I simply say you are fully mistaken.

That is, of course, better than publishing what you wrote and knowing it to be false when you wrote it. That would lead to a different conclusion, wouldn’t it.

And now that you have been reliably informed, you can stop writing what you wrote, okay?

[BelegStrongbow]

Which would be a problem, if Masonry were a religion.

Good thing it isn’t, isn’t it?

[proudtobeanamerican1]

Yes, but are you a Mormon also. Seems to me you would have to be both to disprove TenesseeNanna.

[Question_Assumptions]

Which would be a problem, if Masonry were a religion.

If it were a religion, it might hold meetings in "temples", have a religious mythology, require belief in a deity to join, have a specific name for their deity, or use religious texts in rituals.

To put it another way, if it's not a religion, it sure looks like a mock religion.

[Tennessee Nana]

you wrote and knowing it to be false when you wrote it....
And now that you have been reliably informed, you can stop writing what you wrote, okay?

______________________________________

No it’s not okay..

and if you are suggesting that I agree your rebuke of my comment was reliable, you are mistaken..

and your commens are lauahable at best..

I rely instead on what mormon documents say about the temple ordinances...

and the history of Jowy Smith as written by the mormons themselves..

A little reading might help you..

Mormonism was based partly on Freemasonry...

[donna]

Mysteries Of The Freemasons (History channel)

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2E0E3AB853DE3369&search_query=Mysteries+of+the+Freemasons

[edcoil]

All I can tell you is that your wrong in general terms. There is no reason to emulate Christianity since we are Christians and the church would frown on any duplication.

Freemasonary is about levels and you do not know anything about the level above where you are at but I can assure you there are Christian levels that solely devote themselves to Jesus Christ and his father - God. The father taught by Moses himself.

There are rituals performed daily in the Vatican that I am sure would even surprise you. Christianity is also about rituals.

[Logic n' Reason]

Thanks Donna...I’ll give it a look-see!

[swmobuffalo]

“It is obvious that you are not a Mason and know very little about it.”

LOL I know enough to know that the prescribes of Masonry are not scriptural.

Redleg, a bath helps you know.

[greyfoxx39]

For more information on masonry and mormonism,

The Mysteries of Godliness-A History of Mormon Temple Worship Part Two Masonry

"The complex interplay of Masonic tradition on Mormon temple rites probably had its roots during the mid-1820s, given that Smith's father (apparently) and older brother Hyrum (definitely) had joined the fraternity in 1817 and between 1825 and 1827, respectively.

The definitive examination of Mormonism and Freemasonry has yet to be written. The best to date is Michael W. Homer, "‘Similarity of Priesthood in Masonry’: The Relationship between Freemasonry and Mormonism," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 27 (Fall 1994). For a general introduction, see Reed C. Durham, Jr., "Is There No Help For the Widow's Son?" This was delivered as the presidential address to the Mormon History Association, 20 April 1974. See the version published in Mormon Miscellaneous 1 (Oct. 1975): 11-16. See also Kenneth W. Godfrey, "Joseph Smith and the Masons," Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society 64 (Spring 1971): 79-90; S. H. Goodwin, Mormonism and Masonry: A Utah Point of View (Salt Lake City: Grand Lodge, F. & A. M. of Utah, 1925); and Additional Studies in Mormonism and Masonry (Salt Lake City: Grand Lodge, F. & A. M. of Utah, 1927). Also Mervin B. Hogan, The Origin and Growth of Utah Masonry and Its Conflict with Mormonism (Salt Lake City: Campus Graphics, 1978); Mormonism and Freemasonry: The Illinois Episode (Salt Lake City: Campus Graphics, 1980); Anthony W. Ivins, The Relationship of "Mormonism" and Freemasonry (Salt Lake City: Deseret News Press, 1934); Gavin, Mormonism and Masonry; Allen D. Roberts, "Where Are the All-Seeing Eyes? The Origin, Use and Decline of Early Mormon Symbolism," Sunstone 4 (May-June 1979): 22-37; John E. Thompson, The Masons, the Mormons and the Morgan Incident (Iowa Research Lodge No. 2 A. & A.M., 1981); and Robin L. Carr, Freemasonry and Nauvoo, 1839-1846 (Bloomington, IL: Masonic Book Club, 1989).18

NAUVOO ENDOWMENT CEREMONY RITES COMPARED TO CONTEMPORARY PUBLISHED FREEMASONIC RITES

NAUVOO ENDOWMENT CEREMONY RITES COMPARED
TO CONTEMPORARY PUBLISHED FREEMASONIC RITES

Nauvoo Temple Ceremony Rites I will now give you the signs and tokens of the priesthood . . . the first sign or token is to take hold of the right hand, placing the ball of the thumb between the two upper joints of the fore-fingers. The second sign is to place the thumb on the upper joint of the second finger; —these tokens signify you have two names; one of which is a new name. The third sign is called the Patriarchal grip, and has three names; the first, Patriarchal grip; second, the Son; the third, you will receive at the veil.... We then held up both hands above the head, nd placed our right hand under the left ear, drew it across the throat, the left hand was placed to the right shoulder, then drawn across the breast, and the right hand suddenly thrust down the right side. We then raised our hands again, and were taught how to pray. This ceremony concluded, we proceeded singly to the veil, (which is a large sheet separating us from the upper part of the hall, having five holes in it—two for the eyes, one for the mouth, and two for the arms,) the person representing the Lord is on the other side of the vail, to take the signs and converse with us. Our Instructor tells us how to answer. Then the Lord asks for the signs; we give them; our new name is whispered in his ear; he then whispers the third name of the Patriarchal Grip in our ear, viz:—"Marrow in the bones, Strength in the sinews, and virtue in the loins throughout all generations."

Freemasonic Rites [The grip of the Entered Apprentice:] The right hands are joined together as in shaking hands and each sticks his thumb nail into the third joint or upper end of the forefinger . . . [After receiving the Boaz, the initiate is given a lambskin or white apron which is donned.] [The pass-grip of the Fellow Craft] is given by taking each other by the right hand, as though going to shake hands, and each putting his thumb between the fore and second fingers where they join the hand, and pressing the thumb between the joints. [The pass-grip of the Master Mason] is given by pressing the thumb between the joints of the second and third fingers where they join the hand. [The sign and Due-Guard of the Master Mason] is given by raising both hands and arms to the elbows, perpendicularly, one On each side of the head, the elbows forming a square. The words accompanying this sign, in case of distress, are, "O Lord, My God! Is there no help for the widow’s son?"...The Due Guard is made by holding both hands in front palms down. [The sign and Due-Guard of the Entered Apprentice] is given by holding your two hands transversely across each other, the right hand upwards and one inch from the left...[and] by drawing your right hand across your throat, [Sign and Due-Guard of the Fellow Craft:] The sign is given by drawing your right hand flat, with the palm of it next to your breast from the left to the right side with some quickness, and dropping it down by your side; the Due-Guard is given by raising the left arm until that part of it between the elbow and that part above it form a square. The Penal Sign is given by putting the right hand to the left side of the bowels, the hand open, with the thumb next to the belly, and drawing it across the belly, and letting it fall; this is done tolerably quick. "He (candidate) is raised on what is called the five points of fellowship, which are foot to foot, knee to knee, breast to breast, hand to back and mouth to ear. This is done by putting the inside of your right foot to the inside of the right foot of the person to whom you are going to give the word, the inside of your knee to his, laying your right breast against his, your left hands on the back of each other, and your mouths to each other’s right ear (in which position alone you are permitted to give the word), and whisper the word Mahhahbone. The Master’s grip is given by taking hold of each other’s hand as though you were going to shake hands, and sticking the nails of each of your fingers to the joint of the other’s wrist where it unites with the hand....He is also told that Mahhah-bone signifies marrow in the bone.

From the article: "This pattern of resemblances indicates that Smith drew on Masonic rites in shaping the temple endowment and specifically borrowed tokens, signs, and penalties, as well as possibly the Creation narrative and ritual anointings. Still, the temple ceremony cannot be explained as wholesale borrowing, neither can it be dismissed as completely unrelated. As Mervin Hogan, a Mormon Mason, explained in 1991, "[L]ittle room for doubt can exist in the mind of an informed, objective analyst that the Mormon Temple Endowment and the rituals of ancient Craft Masonry are seeming intimately and definitely involved."56

[FourPeas]

Buddhists beliefs do not include any god(s).