Why should we have Nukes??

30 Mar 09 | Mind Freed

[Mind Freed]

I was watching Bill Mahr this weekend - Not because I like him, trust him, or agree with ANYTHING he says, just to see what the other side is saying about things - and one of his guests was Hip Hop Artist Mos Def. Mos Def made a statement that I would like to know a little more about. I'm still learning about politics and history and things so I am hoping that there is a good answer to this question as it will probably come up in conversation with friends and family and I want to be prepared to have an answer. So... here is the question which Mos Def asked:

Mos Def: Why should America think we have the right to tell other countries that they cannot have Nuclear weapons when we have them too? Every country, including America, should give up their nuclear weapons and shutdown their nuclear programs.

Does this argument have any merit?

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

One word: responsibility.

How many nations are responsible enough to have these weapons, to make sure these weapons don’t go rogue, to use these weapons as deterent and not as threats?

Very few.

[mnehring]

Why should America think we have the right to tell other countries that they cannot have Nuclear weapons when we have them too?

Because we invented them, thus, we own the patent and have the right to license that patent to whom we want and withhold that patent to whom we don't want to have it. It is simply protection of intellectual property..._{I bet you never thought you would hear that argument..}

[pfflier]

The nuclear club, as we know it, has excercised effective command and control over the weapons. Sure, the moralists say we used them but that is using historical 20/20 hindsight and is usually rooted in blantant anti-Americanism.

Possession of nukes by an irresponsible government or stateless terrorist group is unthinkable. These entities typically do not have the capabilities to develop their own nukes and must purchase the materials and knowledge on the open market.

[Red Steel]

In one word Deterrence. While China and Russia and other rogue nations have nuclear weapons or are developing them, the United States cornerstone of nuclear defense is to have nuclear weapons to counter. Have you ever heard of the phrase “Peace through Strength”? The phrase is more than catchy saying. Many nations are dictatorial and are therefore unpredictable. Keeping nuclear weapons out of their hands keeps the world safe and a policy that the US would wisely keep. World nuclear proliferation has to be kept in check.

[The Future 2012]

So we can defend ourselves! Who would attack America if they knew we could blow up multiple cities? No one, that’s who. Who does the bully pick on at the playground, the 400 lb, 7 foot tall giant? Or the weakling? We have nukes so we can continue the be the best country in the world.

[WayneS]

Does this argument have any merit?

Sure it has merit. As soon as Mos Def, or whatever the hell his name is, can tell us how to VERIFY that every other country and terrorist organization on the planet has "gotten rid" of ITS nukes.

How about a follow-up question for you?: Assuming that only certain countries/organizations WILL have them, which of the following would you RATHER see in possession of nuclear weapons:

1) Iran or the United States?
2) Venezuela or Great Britain?
3) Communist China or Israel?
4) Pakistan or India?
5) AlQueda or the United States?

[2banana]

I thought Germany started the process. We just happen to make/use the first ones.

Germany had an idea of what to do, but never got in the ballpark for making one.

[KevinDavis]

Plus the fact most of the Scientist where Jews...

[Dan(9698)]

Books you should read. There are a lot of others, but this will get you started.

David Horowitz, Radical Son, and The Politics of Bad Faith.

Ian Rand, Atlas Shrugged.

Orson Wells, Nineteen Eighty Four

These books will give you a good history of how we got here and how Liberal think.

[mbarker12474]

Nation states do not have rights. Or rather, they have the inherent freedom and "right" to do anything they want, with no authority over them to stop them. Nation states have the right to do anything they want, ergo, it's meaningless to talk about a nation's rights.

Nation states instead have interests, and may choose in their own interest to invest in whatever they want, including nukes, and do so weighing the costs and benefits and risks.

It makes sense for middle-sized nations, who might be able to afford nuke programs, but at considerable expense, to voluntarily surrender their "right" to build nukes, in a situation where there is verifiable and widespread agreement by other nations to do the same.

The mid-sized nation might accept the threat or protection of a super power (like the United States or Soviet Union), in exchange for agreeing to not build its own nuke program.

Comparing the nation state to the human individual by analogy is almost always poor analysis.

Treating the United States with moral equivalence to other nations is a sign of ignorance. (Well, before the election of Obama it was.)

[mnehring]

Ian Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged.

[usmcobra]

Tell me is murder illegal?

Why do criminal still kill?

Because they can.Now think about all the bad governments with nukes and ask your self why the US still has Nukes.
+

[smokingfrog]

You answered your own question.

The world is "lucky" that the US had the first A-bomb.
If the Germans had it first, we'd all be speaking german.
If the Russians had it first, we'd all be speaking russian.
If Israel didn't have nukes, they wouldn't exist.
China has nukes - I think they see them mainly as a defensive weapon, and as a source of world prestige and power.
India and Pakistan nukes have probably prevented all out war between them.
Why does N. Korea need nukes? They can't even feed their own people. They only want them to threaten others.
Why does Iran want nukes? They're nuts!

[SoothingDave]

Ian Rand, Atlas Shrugged.

Any relation to Ayn Rand? ;-)

[Sans-Culotte]

No, because no one can guarantee if the other side has nukes or not. India, for example, tested five nukes evading American satellites, and the world came to know about the tests only when the country's prime-minister announced it to his parliament.

Ditto. What sounded profound coming from Mos def was just the usual Hollywood/Music Industry vacuousness that passes itself off as intellectual. This is why you should never look to popular entertainment of entertainers for knowledge or wisdom.

Sure, it would be great if everybody got rid of nuclear weapons, but it will never happen, and it is extraordinarily foolish and naive to ever think it will happen. Any nation that does so voluntarily will find itself bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[lawdave]

Not to mention, Orson Wells was the fat actor and director of Citizen Kane. George Orwell wrote 1984.

[mnehring]

Ian Rand- Wrote about a super-spy who works for himself. Who is John Galt-Bond
:->

[mnehring]

LOL, Good Catch... Rosebud 1984

[MyTwoCopperCoins]

Nation states do not have rights. Or rather, they have the inherent freedom and "right" to do anything they want, with no authority over them to stop them. Nation states have the right to do anything they want, ergo, it's meaningless to talk about a nation's rights.

This sums it up well:

KPS GILL

Quotes

“Democracy and liberalism are not a sufficient defence and this is a fact that the ideologues of ‘freedom’ need, equally, to comprehend. There is a fatal flaw in the liberal mind. Having established, in structure and form [though seldom in substance], a system of governance that corresponds to its conception of democracy, it feels that nothing more needs to be done. The ‘Truths’ of the liberal ideology are, as the American Declaration on the Rights of Man expresses it, ‘Self Evident’. They require no proof, no reiteration, and no defence - certainly no defence by force of arms. Once democracy [or even the ritual of quinquinneal elections] is established, according to liberal mythology, the mystical ‘invisible hand’ keeps everything in place; the ‘superior wisdom of the masses’ ensures order and justice...”. This is just so much rubbish. As we should know after living with falsehoods for fifty years now. Truth does not triumph; unless it has champions to propound it, unless it has armies to defend it.”

From his book, ‘Punjab: The Knights of Falsehood’

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanwar_Pal_Singh_Gill

Kanwar Pal Singh Gill, was born in Ludhiana, Punjab, India. He began his career as a police officer in the north-eastern state of Assam, quickly earning a reputation as a tough officer. He became a household name across the country as Punjab police chief in the early 1990s, when he was credited with crushing a separatist revolt in the Sikh-majority state.

Widely given credit for addressing the terrorism in Punjab, Mr. Gill was dubbed “Super Cop” after his success in Punjab. He publishes the Faultlines journal and runs the Institute for Conflict Management, as well as advising governments and institutions on security related issues. He was asked by the government of Sri Lanka last year for similar advice. Mr. Gill has also written a book, “The Knights of Falsehood”, which explores the abuse of religious institutions by the politics of freedom struggle in Punjab.

He got involved in sports administration after retirement and is currently the IHF (The Indian Hockey Federation) president.

He has also been appointed as a consultant by the Chattisgarh government to help tackle the Naxalite movement in the state.

Mr. Gill is a well known authority on counter terrorism advising governments and institutions on wide ranging security and counter insurgency issues. His analysis and views on the topic can be accessed at www.satp.org
 

Criticism

For some critics his success is a part of the story started by predecessor Julio Francis Ribeiro who started the “Bullet for Bullet” campaign of hitting back at militants and the strong hand in dealing with militancy adopted by Chief minister Beant Singh.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanwar_Pal_Singh_Gill

Kanwar Pal Singh Gill, was born in Ludhiana, Punjab, India. He began his career as a police officer in the north-eastern state of Assam, quickly earning a reputation as a tough officer. He became a household name across the country as Punjab police chief in the early 1990s, when he was credited with crushing a separatist revolt in the Sikh-majority state.

Widely given credit for addressing the terrorism in Punjab, Mr. Gill was dubbed “Super Cop” after his success in Punjab. He publishes the Faultlines journal and runs the Institute for Conflict Management, as well as advising governments and institutions on security related issues. He was asked by the government of Sri Lanka last year for similar advice. Mr. Gill has also written a book, “The Knights of Falsehood”, which explores the abuse of religious institutions by the politics of freedom struggle in Punjab.

He got involved in sports administration after retirement and is currently the IHF (The Indian Hockey Federation) president.

He has also been appointed as a consultant by the Chattisgarh government to help tackle the Naxalite movement in the state.

Mr. Gill is a well known authority on counter terrorism advising governments and institutions on wide ranging security and counter insurgency issues. His analysis and views on the topic can be accessed at www.satp.org
 

Criticism

For some critics his success is a part of the story started by predecessor Julio Francis Ribeiro who started the “Bullet for Bullet” campaign of hitting back at militants and the strong hand in dealing with militancy adopted by Chief minister Beant Singh.

[Little Ray]

‘Caused they signed a nuclear non-proliferation treaty?