Posted on 02/07/2009 5:48:27 AM PST by BobL
At this point it’s clear that any pretense of fiscal responsibility by our government is over. Not only is spending and debt going through the roof, the long-term goals of this administration (i.e., global warming, locking up land from development, arms reduction/elimination, etc.) almost assure us that we will be Third-World within a decade, and the rest of the world will simply bypass us as our major goals will seeking food and clean water, and hoping that China, Russia, Mexico, and other countries don’t choose to exact revenge on us.
So, that brings us to the S-word, especially here in Texas. I won’t spell out the S-word, since that would probably bring in the soon-to-be formed Internet Goon Squad, so we’ll work around it. But I do think that a serious discussion of the S-word will begin to leave these web pages and move more mainstream, probably within a year , as the effects of the debt start to really to strangle people. After all, the main reason to hold together is that a larger country is generally able to project more power on the world stage and look after common interests. Since we seem to be walking away from having any military power, don’t seem to have any common interests anymore (i.e., red state, blue state divide), and are putting in place measures to assure that we never recover (i.e., Global Warming, National Health Care), the main drawbacks of breaking apart start to go away, and the benefits of breaking apart start to make more and more sense.
So, how would we here in Texas structure things without the “help” of Washington, DC? Note, I’ve already been promised by two people that Oklahoma will join us. I also think that we have a good shot at Arkansas and Louisiana, and if we get them, then Mississippi and Alabama, and, maybe, finally, North Florida would fall into place. In other words, we’d be pretty a big country, able to take care of ourselves.
My first thoughts are cultural…but then much more:
1) We could seal off our southern border, once and for all.
2) We can real employee verification for legal status.
3) English as the Official Language
4) Real welfare reform (or elimination…go to a church if you need help)
5) We could by trucks, light bulbs, toilets that flush, washing machines that clean, and SUVs again (yes, they will still be built for China).
6) We could buy those vehicles without air bags and with a much less costly (but still very effective) emission control system.
7) We could build and expand refineries, and burn coal…as much as necessary
8) We could finally reform public schools, by getting rid of tenure, teachers unions, calculators, and most computers. In other words do what has worked in the past (and hopefully have Dr. Sowell as the Education Secretary…if we have one)
9) Children could have a moment of silence without some ACLU guy screaming
10) We could handle abortion as we wish (rather than having 9 dead [or almost dead] judges dictate to us). 11) We could drill off-shore.
12) We could build as many nukes as we need or want, simply by going to France and either having them manage the task or license their (flawless) technology to us. We could then export our excess power (particularly wind power) either north or south.
13) We could eliminate labor unions and become competitive with the rest of the world. Sounds drastic, but their time has passed, and labor will have plenty of means of redress.
14) We could straighten our legal system, both criminal and civil. No more last minute appeals to federal court to stop executions, no more predatory lawsuits.
15) Needless to say, endangered species would be on their own…we are not going to sink our economy or destroy people’s lives to save something that doesn’t deserve to survive in the first place.
16) No more drawn out processes to block economic growth. There will be some processes, like streamlined environmental reviews, but those the permitting process will have to be done in something like a year (at most) – with no room for judicial interference.
17) No more threats from Washington to force seat belts or rebrand social drinkers as drunk drivers, due to a bunch of guilt-ridden loud-mouthed women (and no, I’ve ALWAYS worn my seat belt, long before it was required, and yes, we do need drunk driving laws…but not at 2 beers – and no, I never had a DUI).
18) End (to the extent possible) the intrusion of Big Brother into our society. One way is to pay for roads with the gas tax. If the tax is not high enough, then raise it. But don’t stick someone in a database every time they drive out to get milk. Same for “Smart (electric) Meters”…you’ll be hearing about just what they are capable of soon enough.
19) No more anchor babies.
20) Free market for health care (or at least much less restricted – such as the ability to buy insurance that doesn’t cover substance abuse…for those of us who don’t plan to abuse substances)
These are a few. Essentially, we could go back to where we were just several decades ago. We will still have environmental laws…cars will have to be clean, but not spotless, and definitely not electric. We will be able to raise kids as we wish and say Merry Christmas again. We will be able to tell a women they look good at work and not be sued. Jesse Jackson’s (and soon Eric Holder’s) extortion tactics will not work here. Same to ACORN and the Hispanic revolutionary bunch.
The drawbacks…just about everyone can be countered. I’ll list a few:
1. The benefit of common defense doesn’t help when we don’t have a defense in the first place and have withdrawn as a superpower – due to being broke, if no other reason.
2. The benefit of a large, open, market doesn’t help when the rest of the market is a total basket case, more interested in looking like Zimbabwe and saving the world from Global Warming.
3. The idea of trying to fix the system from within, which would be ideal, is not possible when you have a Supreme Court making law…cannot be done. The Constitution is non-functional.
4. The possibility that Washington will resist…only legitimate drawback.
Finally, how would the rest of the country react? Hard to tell. At first they will not believe we are serious, since it’s been a long time before there was this type of move. Next, there will be a large faction that will be thrilled to have us bible-thumpers (and the Bush’s) out of their country, so that they can finish their work in making their territory some type of “workers’ paradise”. Finally, there will be a segment that will figure out that we will have quite a stranglehold of the remaining territory, given our chemical, oil, and refining capability, and then especially if we hold the mouth of the Mississippi River, and may actually want to fight. Which faction wins…hard to tell, only one way to find out.
As to our share of the debt (which will be about $1.5T by then), easy – we forego our share of the Social Security Trust Fund and take care of our seniors without Washington’s help. It should be about a wash. If they don’t like that idea, then maybe we take the debt, and simply default on it – not a great way to start, but certainly better than trying to pay it down.
So, what do you guys think? I’m not really interested in the feasibility of the idea, but more the mechanics of it and what outcome could be. Since, if the outcome can be made to work, the feasibility will improve as Washington realizes we mean business. And keep in mind, I’m just trying to get ahead of the curve here…this discussion will begin soon, because of our debt, if nothing else.
I’m starting to believe that you wouldn’t know a conservative if one bit you.
It’s easy to recognized a socialist. Like you they believe:
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
Good stuff, thanks.
Ok, let’s back up. First, I apologize for my somewhat caustic reply. After reviewing the exchange, I think you’ve misinterpreted what I’ve said.
I was in no way defending socialism. What I was trying to explain to you, is how socialism (which I oppose to keep the record straight) takes hold. FDR for example, could have never sold congress or the American people the New Deal, if everything had been running smoothly, and the American people were enjoying prosperity at the time.
FDR sold the American people that bill of goods on the heels of a devastating depression. I repeat, no socialist system, no communist system, and no fascist regime has EVER risen up in a nation or state that was prospering. Socialism is ALWAYS, ALWAYS washed in on a tide of desperation.
In our own case in the 1930’s, the churches and charities had failed. That fact is simply indisputable. It wasn’t their fault, they had nothing left to give, but the fact is incontrovertible. Government stepped in, because a desperate population was willing to cling to any promise of relief, with little forethought about the future ramifications of FDR’s policies. I’ll save it for another post, but the similarities between the circumstances that brought about the new deal, and Hitler’s rise to power are striking. Again, desperate people lose their ability to discern. History shows us this time and time again.
These are political realities that we ignore at our own peril.
Take it to a liberal site. We discuss conservative things here. We don’t need any Obama spokespersons:
Social Security Increases Poverty
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=2302
How Welfare Harms Kids
http://www.heritage.org/research/welfare/BG1084.cfm
Welfare Destroys Social Capital
http://www.ncpa.org/pi/welfare/pdwel/pdwel210.html
Lady, what is your malfunction? I don’t disagree that social security increases poverty. I don’t disagree that welfare harms kids. I certainly don’t disagree that welfare destroy’s social capital.
Here I’ll use little words, since don’t seem to have comprehended anything I’ve written:
The New Deal was bad. Bad means not good. Got that? The New Deal was bad. It hurt America. That means bad things happened because it was implemented.
Because of the new deal we’ve seen generational welfare, and a national debt (that’s money the government owes) that has increased every year since. What I’m trying to tell your thick headed self is that we got it because people were hungry.
Couldn't agree more: those who crave power not only take advantage of the downside of economic cycles to advance their agendas, their policies actually perpetuate depressions (assuming a willing media) as long as they can keep the population in fear and blame their predecessors.
If the economy is allowed to recover, people might demand less intervention. And then the far left will whine about our ingratitude!
donna, “You’re fired”.
We’re not on FR to discuss welfare payments and other socialist programs and this thread is about something else entirely.
If you want to talk liberalism go where liberals are and leave FR as a conservative small government oasis for discussion of conservative things.
Bug off.
Wow, I've never seen anyone so dense. I was talking about the roots of socialism, and this is absolutely the place for conservatives to discuss the roots of socialism and the best way to combat them.
"We have these programs, because family and church failed. The New Deal resonated with the public when it was first conceived because the voluntary and charitable solutions were already failing. It’s a political fact in any system that when private solutions fail, the people will indeed demand that government step in. It’s played out countless times in countless nations."
Secession? Opposed by General Robert E. Lee (and Jefferson Davis) ... how ‘bout Stonewall Jackson?
“In early 1861, President Abraham Lincoln invited Lee to take command of the entire Union Army. Lee declined because his home state of Virginia was seceding from the Union, despite Lee’s wishes.”
After Appomattox, Lee discouraged Southern dissenters from starting a outcome of the war. After Appomattox, Lee discouraged Southern dissenters from starting a guerrilla campaign to continue the war, and encouraged reconciliation between the North and the South.
When Texas seceded from the Union in February 1861, General David E. Twiggs surrendered all the American forces (about 4,000 men, including Lee, and commander of the Department of Texas) to the Texans. Twiggs immediately resigned from the U. S. Army and was made a Confederate general. Lee went back to Washington, and was appointed Colonel of the First Regiment of Cavalry in March 1861. Lee’s Colonelcy was signed by the new President, Abraham Lincoln. Three weeks after his promotion, Colonel Lee was offered a senior command (with the rank of Major General) in the expanding Army to fight the Southern States that had left the Union.
Lee privately ridiculed the Confederacy in letters in early 1861, denouncing secession as “revolution” and a betrayal of the efforts of the Founders.
Lee, who had opposed secession and remained mostly indifferent to politics before the Civil War, supported President Andrew Johnson’s plan of Presidential Reconstruction that took effect in 1865-66.
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20090116.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee
LOL! I’d be all for jettisoning the football team! Although they do generate many good jokes...What do you say to a Husker in a three piece suit? Will the defendant please rise...
“welfare, socialism ...”
Disagree with Newt, if you must ... but say something intelligent.
http://www.healthtransformation.net/cs/transforming_healthcare
“A collaboration of transformational leaders dedicated to the creation of a 21st century intelligent health system in which knowledge saves lives and saves money for all Americans.”
Must be socialism ....
“I’m an Alaskan, not an American. I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.”
Joe Vogler
http://www.akip.org/introduction.html
http://www.akip.org/platform.html
Platform and Goal
of the
Alaskan Independence Party
Preamble
We affirm that all political power is inherent in the people; that all government originates with the people, is founded on their will only, is instituted to protect the rights of the individual; that all persons have a natural right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the enjoyment of the rewards of their own industry; that all persons are equal and entitled to equal protection under the law. We stand on a firm constitutional foundation.
Platform
We pledge to exert our best efforts to accomplish the following:
1. To effect full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska.
2. To support and defend States’ Rights, Individual Rights, Property Rights, and the Equal Footing Doctrine as guaranteed by the constitutions of the United States of America and the state of Alaska.
3. To advocate the convening of a State Constitutional Convention at the constitutionally designated 10 year interval.
4. To reinforce the unalienable rights endowed by our Creator to Alaska law, by eliminating the use of the word “privilege” in the Alaska statutes.
5. To amend the Constitution of the State of Alaska so as to re-establish the rights of all Alaskan residents to entry upon all public lands within the state, and to acquire private property interest there in, under fair and reasonable conditions. Such property interest shall include surface and sub-surface patent.
6. To foster a constitutional amendment abolishing and prohibiting all property taxes.
7. To seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution.
8. To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature.
9. To preserve and protect the Alaska Permanent Fund, Permanent fund earnings, earnings reserve fund and individual Permanent Fund Dividends.
10. To provide for the direct popular election of the attorney general, all judges, and magistrates.
11. To provide for the development of unrestricted, statewide, surface transportation and utility corridors as needed by the public or any individual.
12. To affirm and assert every possible right-of-way established under R.S. 2477 of July 26, 1866, before its repeal by the Federal Land Management Policy Act of October 21, 1976.
13. To support the right of the individual to keep and bear arms.
14. To support the complete abolition of the concept of sovereign or governmental immunity, so as to restore accountability for public servants.
15. To support the rights of parents to privately or home school their children.
16. To support the privatization of government services.
17. To oppose the borrowing of money by government for any purposes other than for capital improvements.
18. To strengthen the traditional family and support individual accountability without government interference or regulation.
19. To support the right of jurors to judge the law as well as the facts, according to their conscience.
20. To support “Jobs for Alaskans...First!”
Let’s make the 2nd Amendment what it SHOULD have been all along - anything you can carry, you can own. Specifically, no restrictions on full autos that don’t exist for other firearms. No special license, no tax, no CLEO sign-off, no matter if you have mixed full- and semi-auto parts in the same gun.
Let’s see Uncle mess with Texas when you have 500,000 or more full autos here, along with our own armor (Ft. Hood) our own airbases (all over the place) and probably a bunch of nukes (they ARE manufactured at the PANTEX plant near Amarillo).
We would be a magnet for freedom-loving Americans in all states - we’d get the most committed, most capable people to move here.
Are you really worried about Mexico? Look the border with them is about 1240 miles. Call it 1250. Put a quad-50 and crew every 1/2 mile, and you need 2500 of the things. What's one cost to build, $100,000 (probably lots less in quantity, esp. if we start doing it down here)? $250 million at most. Yeah, they eat a bunch, but that's a cheap investment to make. We have armor from Ft. Hood and fighters all over the place, plus 10 million armed Texans. Mexico's going to f with us? Really?
Lol. Well, you did quote me word for word. Unfortunately for you, you have no idea what it means. I’m done. You don’t have the intelligence to comprehend what I’m saying, and you don’t have the honor to admit it. I think you’d be extremely happy at DU, they’re your kind of shallow minded people who communicate primarily in object verb sentences.
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