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Constitutional Lawyer: If Obama Takes Oath, It Will Be Perjury - Plus Maps Out The ...
Pat Dollard ^ | December 3, 2008 | Pat Dollard

Posted on 12/03/2008 4:31:59 PM PST by hamboy

Constitutional Lawyer: If Obama Takes Oath, It Will Be Perjury - Plus Maps Out The Specific Chaos That Will Absolutely Ensue

Obama Fomenting A Constitutional Crisis: Constitutional Lawyer Discusses Ramifications To Country

The Philadelphia Bulletin Error 404, page removed!

By John P. Connolly
12/01/2008

Controversy continues to surround President-elect Barack Obama’s eligibility to serve as president, and a case involving his birth certificate waits for its day before the U.S. Supreme Court. A constitutional lawyer said were it to be discovered that Mr. Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen, it would have grave consequences for the nation.

According to the Constitution, a president must be a natural born citizen of the U.S. Mr. Obama’s critics have failed to force him legally to produce his original birth certificate, and Mr. Obama has resisted any attempt to make him do so. Currently, only Hawaii Department of Health officials have access to Mr. Obama’s original records.

Some of Mr. Obama’s critics have said he was born in Kenya and have claimed he is a citizen of Kenya, Indonesia, or even a British subject.

Edwin Vieira, a constitutional lawyer who has practiced for 30 years and holds four degrees from Harvard, said if it were to be discovered Mr. Obama were not eligible for the presidency, it would cause many problems. They would be compounded if his ineligibility were discovered after he had been in office for a period of time.

“Let’s assume he wasn’t born in the U.S.,” Mr. Vieira told The Bulletin. “What’s the consequence? He will not be eligible. That means he cannot be elected validly. The people and the Electoral College cannot overcome this and the House of Representatives can’t make him president. So what’s the next step? He takes the oath of office, and assuming he’s aware he’s not a citizen, then it’s a perjured oath.”

Any appointments made by an ineligible president would have to be recalled, and their decisions would be invalidated.

“He may have nominated people to different positions; he may have nominated people to the judicial branch, who may have been confirmed, they may have gone out on xecutive duty and done various things,” said Mr. Vieira. “The people that he’s put into the judicial branch may have decided cases, and all of that needs to be unzipped.”

Mr. Vieira said Obama supporters should be the ones concerned about the case, because Mr. Obama’s platform would be discredited it he were forced to step down from the presidency later due to his ineligibility, were it to be discovered.

“Let’s say we go a year into this process, and it all turns out to be a flim-flam,” said Mr. Vieira. “What’s the nation’s reaction to that? What’s going to be the reaction in the next U.S. election? God knows. It has almost revolutionary consequences, if you think about it.”

Mr. Vieira said Mr. Obama’s continued silence and avoidance in the release of his birth certificate is an ethical issue because of the dire consequences that could be caused by a possible constitutional crisis.

“If he were my client and this question came up in civil litigation, if there was some reason that his birth status was relevant and the other side wanted him to produce the thing and he said ‘no,’ I would tell him, ‘you have about 15 minutes to produce it or sign the papers necessary to produce the document, or I’m resigning as your attorney,” said Mr. Vieira. “I don’t think any ethical attorney would go ahead on the basis that his client could produce an objective document in civil litigation [and refused to do so].”

Further, Mr. Vieira cited a fraud ruling in a 1977 case called U.S. v. Prudden, which he feels applies in this case.

“Silence can only be equated with fraud when there is a legal and moral duty to speak or when an inquiry left unanswered would be intentionally misleading,” the ruling reads. “We cannot condone this shocking conduct … If that is the case we hope our message is clear. This sort of deception will not be tolerated and if this is routine it should be corrected immediately.”

Mr. Vieira said such an ethical question of representing a client who refused to produce such a basic document is important, even in a small civil case. The current question is concerning the man who potentially could have his finger next to the nuclear button.

“[The birth certificate], in theory, should be there,” said Mr. Vieira. “What if it isn’t? Who knows, aside from Mr. Obama? Does Russian intelligence know it isn’t there? Does Chinese intelligence know it isn’t there? Does the CIA know that it isn’t there? Who is in a position to blackmail this fellow?”

Mr. Vieira explained all laws have to be submitted to the president. In the event that there is no valid president, then no laws passed by Congress in that administration would be legally null and void. Because of that, this case will probably not go away, even after Mr. Obama takes the oath of office.

“If you don’t produce it, you think it’s going to go away,” he said. “There are all these cases challenging Mr. Obama, and some challenging secretaries of state, and they run into this doctrine called standing.”

Mr. Vieira explained although legal standing is difficult to get around in Federal courts, the document could be produced in any criminal cases stemming from legislation passed in the Obama administration.

“Let’s assume that an Obama administration passes some of these controversial pieces of legislation he has been promising to go for, like the FOCA (Freedom of Choice) Act,” said Mr. Vieira. “I would assume that some of those surely will have some severe civil or criminal penalties attached to them for violation. You are now the criminal defendant under this statute, which was passed by an Obama Congress and signed by President Obama. Your defense is that is not a statute because Mr. Obama is not the president. You now have a right and I have never heard this challenged, to subpoena in a criminal case, anyone who has relevant evidence relating to your defenses. And you can subpoena them duces tecum, meaning ‘you shall bring with you the documents.’ ”

Such a criminal defense would enable the defendant to subpoena any person to testify in court and any person to bring evidence in their possession to the court.

Further, records could be subpoenaed directly, in the case of a birth certificate. Once the record could be subpoenaed, the birth certificate could be examined by forensic experts, who would then be able to testify to the document’s veracity as expert witnesses. Any movement by the judges to make a special exception to the president in a criminal case would hurt the legitimacy of that presidential administration.

“I can’t believe I’m the only lawyer who would think of this,” said Mr. Vieira. “I think any criminal lawyer defending against one of these politically charged statutes is going to come up with this. That means it will never go away until that document is laid down on the table and people say, ‘yes, there it is.’ And therefore they’re caught. If people keep challenging this and the judges out of fear keep saying ‘no, go to jail, go to jail, go to jail’ then that’s the end of the Obama administration’s legitimacy. On the other hand if they open the file and it’s not there, then that’s really the end of the administration’s legitimacy.”

Several court cases in the birth certificate controversy are waiting admission to the Supreme Court.

A gathering of judges will meet on Dec. 5 to decide whether or not to hear a case from New Jersey, and a decision is still pending on a case from a lawyer in Pennsylvania. Should four of the judges vote to hear the case in the Dec. 5 meeting, then it will be scheduled for hearings. Court cases from Connecticut and New York have also applied for hearings at the U.S. Supreme Court.

 


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Conspiracy; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: anerican; attorney; barackobama; bho2008; birthcertificate; certifigate; chaos; citizenship; congress; constitution; corruption; crime; democrat; dhs; dnc; election; electoralcollege; fec; federal; fraud; hawaii; homelandsecurity; law; lawsuit; lawyers; military; muslim; nationalsecurity; naturalborn; nuclear; nukes; obama; obamatransitionfile; obamatruthfile; perjury; presidentelect; revolution; riots; senators; states; supremecourt; thekenyan; unitedstates; us; usairforce; usarmy; usnavy; voters; war; washington; weapons; whitehouse; wot
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To: frog in a pot
Even more effective, and what ever the courts do or do not do, I think it is imperative that our Republican politicians do not just ask for proof but prepare to demonstrate he is not natural born.

I think it might be better to argue that (1) ascending presidents should be expected (required) to demonstrate eligibility as a matter of course, and (2) if Obama is allowed in without having to prove eligibility, then nothing would stop ineligible people from following in his footsteps; (3) Obama's willingness to expend far more effort refusing to demonstrate eligibility than would be required to simply demonstrate it as a matter of course, despite the precedent set by such behavior, is at the very least highly unseemly.

There are many people whose ears will turn off at the slightest hint of an allegation that Obama is ineligible. A better angle would be to start by getting people to agree that the image of Obama and the U.S. would be improved if Obama would stop wasting time and simply release the (bleep) records. I can't imagine why anyone who thinks that Obama could demonstrate his eligibility wouldn't think he should do so. I'd be curious, if there are any liberals who think he could but shouldn't, what the rationale might be for such belief.

41 posted on 12/03/2008 6:11:28 PM PST by supercat (Barry Soetoro == Bravo Sierra)
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To: Myrrh123

The door to Free Republic swings both ways and you can find your way out even easier than getting in.

But fwiw, there were lots of naysayers before clinton was actually impeached who told us to give that up, too. We didn’t get all we wanted on that but clinton has an indelible mark on his Permanent Record!

Lead, Follow, or get the hell outta the way.


42 posted on 12/03/2008 6:13:34 PM PST by Eagle Eye (Libs- If you don't have to play the rules then neither do we...THINK ABOUT IT!)
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To: TEXOKIE

Do the astrologers say whether Obam will serve as President?


43 posted on 12/03/2008 6:14:10 PM PST by FFranco
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To: Myrrh123
The entire left, everyone who voted for Obama, all have known all along that Obama was ineligible.

Many in the left probably believe, and believed, that if a candidate was fielded who was ineligible but nonetheless became popular, that it would be possible to stifle the question of eligibility and put him in the White House. If Obama is allowed to enter the White House without ever having to prove his eligibility, regardless of whether or not he himself is personally eligible, he will have proven that belief correct.

44 posted on 12/03/2008 6:15:43 PM PST by supercat (Barry Soetoro == Bravo Sierra)
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To: Boardwalk

Betcha they’re here right now. Listening, lurking, watching, spying on every word and punctuation. Forwarding it all, lock stock and barrell, to “fightthesemars.com” who funnel it straight to Obama’s hoards of henchmen. They know.....They know. They’re snoopy and gossipy and think they have the right to tell everyone how to live and what to believe. I’m beginning to wonder if it’s not them who’re really rallying behind the BC furor to make the right look stupid and disfunctional.


45 posted on 12/03/2008 6:20:10 PM PST by Myrrh123
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To: Myrrh123

Well, sounds like you are doing a fine job so far for your team! The BC furor...lol.


46 posted on 12/03/2008 6:22:39 PM PST by Boardwalk
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To: Myrrh123

Don’t take the Lord’s name in vain.

Thank you.


47 posted on 12/03/2008 6:23:52 PM PST by Brad’s Gramma ( PRAY!)
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To: FFranco

I am concerned that if the Supremes sweep it under the rug, the question will not go away.

So suddenly something happens somewhere in the world, the O-man calls up a General or a theatre commander and says something, and they respond... “Say what, sucka?”

If this issue is not resolved NOW then we are looking at years of lawsuits, disobeyed orders, government gridlock...

He does not trust the American people.
And they won’t trust him.

That’s not a good situation.


48 posted on 12/03/2008 6:24:39 PM PST by djf (...heard about a couple livin in the USA, he said they traded in their baby for a Chevrolet...)
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To: djf

You are right! Obama also implored that he wanted to be our President too. So show it. Make me yours.


49 posted on 12/03/2008 6:26:08 PM PST by Boardwalk
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To: Myrrh123

“I’m beginning to wonder if it’s not them who’re really rallying behind the BC furor to make the right look stupid and dysfunctional.”

PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION IS:

‘stupid and dysfunctional?’

STE=Q


50 posted on 12/03/2008 6:28:23 PM PST by STE=Q ("These are the times that try men's souls." -- Thomas Paine)
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To: Boardwalk

oooooh, subterfuge. I love fiction. Do go on.


51 posted on 12/03/2008 6:31:59 PM PST by Myrrh123
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To: Myrrh123

ohhh haiku. Mine is better. Subterfuge off.


52 posted on 12/03/2008 6:37:25 PM PST by Boardwalk
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To: Myrrh123
This issue has caught fire with the grassroots of America and it's never going away.


53 posted on 12/03/2008 6:37:44 PM PST by America2012
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To: hamboy
and assuming he’s aware he’s not a citizen, then it’s a perjured oath.”

What's a little perjured oath among democrats? Move along now

That picture is positively evil looking!

54 posted on 12/03/2008 6:38:05 PM PST by CAluvdubya (Sarah's my girl! Palin 2012)
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To: Brad's Gramma

I did not take the Lord’s name in vain. I don’t know about you but MY Lord’s name is “JESUS”, not Jebus. Kind of like saying “dang-it” instead of “damn-it”. I didnt know there were rules about nonsensical expletives?


55 posted on 12/03/2008 6:41:41 PM PST by Myrrh123
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To: Myrrh123

There are children/teens reading this forum. I know you’re new.....but we try to behave for them..... and well, it just looks nice. OK?

Again, thanks.


56 posted on 12/03/2008 6:46:00 PM PST by Brad’s Gramma ( PRAY!)
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To: Myrrh123

You sound like a Democrat I met recently. Hmmm.


57 posted on 12/03/2008 6:56:05 PM PST by My hearts in London - Everett (Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.)
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To: djf
So suddenly something happens somewhere in the world, the O-man President and CIC calls up a General or a theatre commander and says something, and they respond... “Say what, sucka Yes Sir

There corrected for reality.

58 posted on 12/03/2008 7:01:22 PM PST by MilspecRob (Most people don't act stupid, they really are.)
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To: STE=Q

Because the constitution has not been violated, so “defending” it against what?. There is only suspicion, rumor, and innuendo. It’s been thrown out of court already, and it will most likely be thrown out of court again, and again, and again. I fail to see how continuing to question this after the State of Hawaii has authenticated O as a US citizen does any thing positive for the nation as a whole. How can the state of Hawaii be labeled as alleged co-conspirators? What in the heck would that do for states rights? Are we now questioning the state of Hawaii’s veracity? This is freakish “conspiracy theory” stuff that makes the collective look and sound like petulant spoiled kids who didnt get their way and are bent on making the whole family miserable for the duration of the “stay”. Just sayin’. You may not like what I’m sayin’ but, that’s the breaks kiddo, no harm intended.


59 posted on 12/03/2008 7:14:02 PM PST by Myrrh123
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To: America2012

I’ll agree that something is “on fire”, but alas, it’s not this non-issue. besides,they’ve already minted the official Obama coins, no goin’ back now!


60 posted on 12/03/2008 7:14:02 PM PST by Myrrh123
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