Posted on 11/17/2008 11:53:22 PM PST by Skenderbej
Fellow Freepers, I'm 28 and have peer friends on Facebook who are very liberal. I feel that conservatives are not well represented in my age group and often find myself defending conservative issues from comments by liberals. Below I have posted a brief discussion that took place this evening on Facebook. What could I have done better? For some reason, every time I try to debate a liberal, I get insulted and I am finding myself somewhat discouraged by trying to defend conservative values.
I changed the names, including my own. I'm Kevin. Krissy is conservative, but obviously better friends with Dave, the liberal. Thank you in advance, and sorry for the vanity.
Krissy joined the group "Stop persecuting the Mormons for Prop 8"
Dave commented, "The Mormons set themselves up for persecution when they joined in a discriminatory initiative."
Kevin commented, "What discrimination is being displayed against homosexuals? They have the same opportunity to marry a person of the opposite sex as heterosexuals."
Dave commented, "By your logic, heterosexuals should have the same opportunity to marry a person of the same sex as homosexuals."
(I have to admit, at this point I was confused by his response.)
Krissy commented, "btw - I'm not getting in2 this - it's my choice 2 join the group. I appreciate your opinions, but I did not ask for them."
Dave commented, "Krissy, love ya=)"
Kevin commented (same post time as Krissy's comment), "And pedophiles, beastialists, and the incestuous should be allowed to marry those whom they love? No matter how tolerant we claim to be, we all choose to discriminate in different circumstances. The question is, Who decides where society discriminates and where society is permissive? Prop 8 is a good example of the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution in action.
Krissy commented, "Dave - u no I luv u. Kevin, please go pick a fight with someone else and not on my page. If I wanted anyone's opinion, I really would ask for it. This conversation is over, period."
Dave commented, "Thank you Krissy. This is sooo not worth the argument. Idiot words speak for themselves...clearly."
Dave deleted his posts from the conversation board.
Libs are grossly intolerant of all other points of view. Myspace and FaceBook are two shining examples.
If you’re going to go there, just assume you’re going to be a minority and the mods will ignore their rules violations when libs are arguing with you.
“Liberal friends” is an oxymoron. You will do better discussing matters with rattlesnakes.
I think you are a little too old for Facebook.
I have accts on both and many more. I don't use them, I just wanted to protect myself from being confused with the other people that share my name.
Small chance of it happening, but... I'm paranoid.
I'm engaged in a private, one-sided war with the people that share my name. ;)
Good to see you around!
We’re in for some fun times.
Your friend believes it’s a moral and just cause to “persecute” those who disagree with his agenda. There are millions and millions like him out there.
Trying to debate a liberal just gets you in insulted and called names because that’s the only way they can defend their position. They try to intimidate you into backing down by calling you hateful, bigoted, racist, etc. if you disagree with them.
Well, you can meet some low self-esteem, easy, females on there so I hear.
They don't debate. They attack with the sole intention of silencing you.
Every once in a while, they'll attempt to guilt trip you, make you feel sorry for them, or try another emotional angle. It's nothing more than another way to silence you.
If you're interested in a liberal girl, well, have at her. Don't talk politics, don't try to convert her, just... ah... yeah.
If you're friends - I mean real friends here, not just a classmate - with a liberal guy, either tread softly or avoid politics altogether. It'll take a firm a$$ kicking from life to force him to, ah, "grow up".
If they truly cared about the benefits of marriage, they would work hard to strengthen civil unions. However, that isn't their aim. They simply want the State - and society at large - to sanction them, to grant them moral approval.
Good luck, no matter what you choose to do.
Just be glad you don’t have to actually see me, LOL
Liberals tend to emote rather than think so their arguments aren’t often based in logic. They are based in “feeling”.
I’m glad your sense of humor is still intact ;)
Take care and good night!
(I have to admit, at this point I was confused by his response.)
But there is nothing to be confused about. Vacuously, you share the same right: you have no right to marry a person of the same sex, and neither do they. They are neither granted a right you do not posses, nor are they denied one you do. Your friends "logic" actually proves your point.
My advice in debating liberals is that first and foremost you do not accept their premises. This is the distinction between conservatives who know what they're doing and confused conservatives, like, for example, most Republicans. Homosexuality is a mild form of mental illness for which we currently have no generally effective treatments. Being a homosexual is not in itself wrong; but the practice of homosexuality is regarded by most religions as immoral. Your friend is not entitled to define the practice of homosexuality as moral any more than you are. If you believe it's immoral, you do not need to accept his proposition that its practice ought to be allowed. Society expresses its sanction for various practices through law. The claim that one cannot legislate morality is crap. Almost all of our criminal code is in fact a legislation of morality in one form or another. If you accept his premise that homosexual behavior is not immoral, you have no place to go. If you deny his premise, assume that it's wrong, then there is plenty of room to argue how society should regulate behavior it believes is improper.
Our culture is so thoroughly corrupted by liberalism that it's often nearly impossible even for conservatives to see why conservatives are opposed to liberal ideas. The first thing you need to do in arguments is to check your premises. Invariably, you will find that you've already accepted the basis of the liberal position as a starting point, and that is the best way to lose an argument.
Find ‘Friends’ who don’t insult you because you disagree with them.
Do some reading and think about what you believe and why, as well as the implications for those beliefs in society.
Call your ‘Friends’ on their intolerant behaviour towards those (you) who have different values. If you really want to annoy them use the same terminology as liberals.
For example ask your ‘Friend’ Dave if he believes in oppressing religious minorities, and whether this oppression should be carried out by the government, or violent street gangs.
Eventually people realize that if your ideas can stand on their own merits you don't need to.
Try this response to Krissy; its not great but maybe you can take something from it:
I am sorry for apparently offending you by offering my opinion on Prop 8. I come from a long line of Americans that believe that the free exchange of thought through polite discourse is an essential element of our democracy; and that when these ideas compete for acceptance "full and free discussion exposes the false, encourages the testing of our own prejudices and preconceptions... and keeps a society from becoming stagnant"[1]. The willingness of either side to debate an issue is an admission that ones views might be wrong or incomplete, which can sometimes be hard to do; but a belief that cannot be defended is not worth holding. When you offered your own opinion in public forum and started this debate I understandably recognized this as an invitation to join with you in this discussion, to further both our understandings of this issue and 'reduce our prejudices and preconceptions'. I won't make this mistake in the future.
[1] Justice Douglas' dissent in Dennis v. United States, 341 U.S. 494, 584 (1951)
-paridel
You’ve asked for advice: here it is.
If you are going to debate, get used to the idea that your opponent is seldom going to agree with you and even more seldom going to be polite. Few people can debate intelligently, the way most folk on the FRee Republic debate. Most other people are ignorant jerks.
The FRee Republic is great because you can practise your debating technique against some very discerning and intelligent opponents who, at the end of the debate, will not hold your viewpoint against you: providing only that you debated fairly and well.
When an opponent stoops to personal abuse you know that you have him by the goolies. It is called an “ad hominem” attack: attacking the man and not the argument. That is the time to go for the throat and drive your argument home.
“When you have your enemy by the throat, squeeze until his eyeballs pop out”, as somebody famous once said. Press your attack the instant he gets personal.
So in summary: man up, suck it in, and come out swinging. Liberals hate it when we do that!
Laugh at them. Just because communist won an election doesn’t mean it’s right, especially given the fraud perpetrated by the media and acorn
Of all the social media you could be involved in to better your business (according to your profile you are an entrepreneur), Facebook is the worst. Spend your time on LinkedIn and in other professional groups where “adults” talk about the issue that matters: money.
Every minute on Facebook is a minute away from your business.
PS Did I mention it’s the money?
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