Comments from an Obama voter (not trolling ) You've had your fun, ZOT!

Traviswf

[Traviswf]

Hi there. I voted for Obama, but have been reading a lot of Freerepublic lately to see how the other side is reacting. I'm not trying to troll here - honestly - but if you feel I am, that's understandable. I just wanted to offer a perspective on this that I think may be interesting to some of you. Oh, and this is much longer than I intended. And I'm fairly certain I'm not posting this the right way...for which I apologize.

When Bush was elected in 2000, I was upset. And yes, I whined about him "stealing" the election. I don't really think that's true anymore - it was just a painful way to lose. Sure, we can whine about the popular vote vs. the electoral vote, but you can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Then I watched the movie Recount and realized just how awful the democrats were at trying to win the damn thing. Gore seemed like he didn't really want it.

When Bush won in 2004, I was absolutely devastated. I thought the world was going to end. I didn't think we should be in Iraq, I agreed with Kerry that we had to finish the fight in Afganistan. I was worried about the courts. And frankly - I just didn't like Bush. I didn't like the way he governed, the way he spoke, and the way he talked as if we on the left were less American.

On 9/11 I happened to be in Toronto on business. When the towers fell, I knew I had to get home. A colleague and I wanted to go to New York, to help in some way. But we were told nobody was getting anywhere close. Our next instinct was to get home - to California. We didn't just want to be with our families, we desperately wanted to be in our country. That day was rough because my colleague thought his wife might have been on one of the planes - her travel plans were very similar. It took hours of agony before we, thank God, found out she was safe.

So we rented a car in Toronto and drove across the country. It took a couple hours to get across the border in the middle of the night. We stopped in Omaha, and then Colorado. I can't even tell you how much I loved my country driving across its beauty in those days after the attacks. And there were no jokes about "we're in enemy territory" because we were in "red states." We were in America. Everywhere we went people said "How are you? Is everyone safe?"

I know everyone has similar stories of those days. And certainly many, many people have stories of real loss - not just "we thought we lost someone, but it was a happy ending." Then, fairly quickly, I felt my patriotism coming under attack because I had a difference of opinion about how to fight back. I didn't think Iraq was the right choice - it made no sense to me, and I certainly wasn't alone. But people questioned my love of my country. And that was very, very hard to forgive.

When 2008 came up, more than anything, I wanted to win the White House back. I wanted to punish the Bush administration for what I felt was not just a failure to be competent, but a failure to keep the country united. I inititally supported Hilary, but I had this feeling in my gut that she was just going to be Bush - but for our side. She'd be a partisan warrior, a polarizing figure (which Bush wasn't when he started, but Hilary already was...). It made me sick to my stomach.

I wanted to go back to feeling like an American in those days after the attack - where our disagreements were things we laughed about over a beer and the real threat was far, far more serious.

I'd written Obama's candidacy off as a dry run for 2016 or later. Or maybe he was running for VP. I thought - hey, dude, at least finish a term in the Senate. Then when he said "we're not a collection of red states and blue states, we're the United States of America" it hit me like lightning. It had nothing to do with him - it had to do with the country, and my love for it and this feeling deep down in my gut that we were fighting over the placement of the deck chairs while the ship was sinking.

Wow, this got really rambly. Sorry about that. Here's why I posted initially. I saw this thing on here about Obama's "national defense force" and some posters commenting about the coming civil war or some such. I'm pretty sure Obama was just talking about funding for police. I mean - are you guys really worried he's going to do this? There was a rumor on the left that Bush was bringing a military brigade trained in "riot control" home from Iraq before the elections. People were convinced Bush was going to take over the country in a military coup. I'm sure you think that's laughable - as do I. Obama is not going to raise a civilian force of brown coats. First of all there's no money for it, nobody would go for it, and he'd be laughed out of the White House.

He's also not a socialist. And he's not coming for your guns. If he did either of this things, he can basically just go home now. Those are not realistic positions for any president to have. He will likely appoint liberals - at least too liberal for you guys - to the courts.

But here's the thing. He's going to try and be a good president. I think they all do. And Obama ran on uniting the country, on being bipartisan. That's sort of ALL he ran on. It's how he won 60% of independent and brought home so many of the Clinton voters. So if he doesn't deliver on this - I imagine he'll be fairly easy to beat in 2012.

So that's my two cents. Obama was always going to get my vote as the nominee because I'm a lifelong democrat and a liberal. But I'm not a socialist or a pacifist. I believe in the 2nd amendment and favor the idea of most issues being decided by the states. I'm not a religious man, but I respect those who are and I think the Dems over reach in pushing religion out of the public square. I believe global warming is a serious problem, but I also think Al Gore enjoys it WAY too much.

And here's another caveat. I know it's easier to be bipartisan and talk about "togetherness" when my guy won. I was where you guys are now in 2000 and 2004. I mean, my party ALMOST ran Howard Dean and then said "No wait! John Kerry is a much better idea!" Or in this election to have a friend say "You've GOT to read Alec Baldwin's latest piece on HuffPo." I mean...really? He doesn't count as an "Obamacon" you know, he only plays a republican on TV...(you guys ever notice that our most annoying Hollywood liberals end up playing republicans? what's with that?)

So yeah - we've all spent some time in the woods. I just hope we can all agree that we're just as American as the other, and we're passionate about what we believe to be the right path to take. There are real problems with the economy, and Islamic Terrorists aren't going to take a vacation for four years.

That's about it I guess. Sorry you guys lost.

[Traviswf]

Oh - and as for the birthplace origin thing: I think the consensus on that is that you only to have be born a citizen of the United States. Which means that if Obama’s mother is a citizen - which she seems to be - then so is he.

So whether he still has his real birth certificate or not is a moot point. And if he WAS born in Kenya, and his mother fudged it to show he was born in Hawaii - then it’s possible that secret died with her. Either way, it’s possible Obama wouldn’t know one way or the other what the truth is - having not really been cognizant of the whole being born part of his life.

[FTL]

As for the Censorship Doctrine, I have no real idea what that is. I know it has something to do with talk radio, but I don’t listen to talk radio. I tried to listen to Air America once - thinking “Hey! Talk Radio for the left, that’s awesome!” It was not awesome. It was very, very far from awesome.

Well, read up on it from our perspective. I'm not typing up the dissertation tonight, too much to go in to. Yes, Air America sucks and Liberal radio doesn't sell which is validation that the nation is Center-Right.

[Traviswf]

“So who sent you over here? Kos? DU? How the daily reports back to HQ? I sense a promotion in your future.”

I’ve tried to report back to HQ, but it’s become increasingly hard to find the Democratic Underground since they are...well...underground. And I told Kos my reports, but I don’t think he was listening, judging from the way he was pouring over his “Socialist Amerika” checklist.

And I wish there was a promotion - but you know how it is in collectives...it’s always a lateral move.

[Truthsearcher]

So why even bother posting here.

Obviously, the differences between you and most people here is a fundamentally different world view. Which is not something that can be easily changed either way. You’re not changing anybody’s mind. And you won’t be changing yours either.

So what exactly are you trying to accomplish?

[river rat]

"You really think Obama is as bad as Mao, or Hitler, or Castro?"

_________________________________________________ I've seen more evidence of this potential, than evidence to the contrary...

* The frozen access to ANY of his documented history.
* His use and encouragement of Personality Cult worship.
* His elevation to power with NONE of the resume or experience usually associated with such positions.
* His 20+ year history with Black Liberation Theology.
* His propensity to accumulate friends, most of us regard as enemies.
* His birth from the womb of corrupt Chicago politics.
* His relationship, funding and utilization of organizations whose goals are contrary to National Interest or Laws.....ie, Bill Ayers, Farrakhan, ACORN, MoveOn.org, New Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, Rev. Wright, George Soros, etc, etc.....
* His early relationship with known Communists and his early "arrangements" with the American Socialist/Communist Party
* I'm sure I could mention at least a dozen additional "warning flags".....dealing with Character, Agenda and Integrity.

"Aren’t we getting a LITTLE carried away with this? It doesn’t matter how charismatic a President is - he’s still only one part of 1/3 of the Government. There’s always the mid term elections, the Supreme Court, impeachment, re-election, the Washington Post, etc.

I think the belief that a President could tear apart the fabric of American democracy shows a stunning lack of faith in the American people and our system of government.

He will be, after all, JUST a President.

_________________________________________________ Well - it appears you fail to comprehend the damage that can be done by a single term Democrat President who has both the House and Senate with strong if not bullet proof Leftist Democrat control - and a Federal Judiciary sufficiently loaded with ample "like thinking" Leftist and activist Judges....

For a refresher course on the damage possible from a single term Democrat President -- check out the record of Jimmy Carter!

The Democrats successfully restrained Judicial appointments during Bush's administrations and will now move quickly to fill those spots with LIFELONG "fellow travelers"....

The Economy is in shambles - due LARGELY to Democrat, Black Congressional Caucus and OBAMA's clearly incompetent, reckless and self serving "constituent" pandering "high risk loans" forced on Lending Institutions in violation of all fiduciary responsibility.....

The Republic is involved in two hot wars and several heating up theaters --- with a President elect who has ALWAYS been critical of our conduct of war against the Islamic forces who want this war.

This President elect campaigned in an empty suit, with a glib sermon on CHANGE and HOPE -- then collects around him folks whose records are well known with histories as unsavory as his own.....

Once again - I should mention, America is NOT a democracy.. It is a Constitution based Federal Republic.

For you to speak of the President of the United States as "Just a President" -- speaks loudly of your lack of understanding of the power an American President whose party controls both houses of Congress and much of the Judiciary.

Your naivety is raised to the "Nth" power by your suggestion that the American voter whose ignorance was recently confirmed and the Washington Post will rise to rescue America from a rogue Government.

Time will tell if my concerns are rational or not.... I suspect it will not take long..... We should all know for sure within the 1st year, if not within the 1st 100 days.

[backhoe]

I have replied to someone else about the “Civilian security force” in another post that maybe you didn’t see. The only evidence I’ve seen of a security force on right wing blogs are this Youtube clip that has Obama referring to a defense force at home. I believe, in that speech, he’s talking about more money for cops and firefighters - because they are first responders in a 9/11 or Katrina like scenario. The other part of his plan is organizing volunteer to respond to emergency situations, filling in a gap that was noticeable, and everyone has talked about, during Katrina (and 9/11). People want to help - but there’s no organization for bringing in those people and sending them where they are most needed. Then there is the call for volunteering in expanded Americorps and Peace Corps, which young people can do for college tuition. I’m not seeing anything resembling a gestapo like civilian security force in there, nor the potential for one. If you’ve ever run across a group of kids working for Americorps - you’ll know how benign they are.

Well, I'll thank you for the courteous reply.

We have a difference of position- I think the signs for a potential Mussolini are blatant.

You don't, and that's fine.

Just one thing?

You're betting your freedom- and life-- on your position...

...hope yer right...

[Lady GOP]

He Said It

[mylife]

So, the country is beautiful to you when we are huddled masses in survival mode?

[Hildy]

Thank you for writing a well reasoned, well thought out and repsectful letter. This is the time for venting from any losing side, you’re right. And as emotions die down, I too, hope for only good things for this country. But I must tel; you that I don’t think that will happen.

[Hildy]

NATURAL BORN CITIZEN. Different.

[FTL]

I really don’t think Obama is after guns.

_______________________Well you are wrong.

I’m not sure why ANYONE is after guns.

_____________________Same reason Hitler disarmed the public. A disarmed public can then be easily ruled and tyranny and oppression can be imposed.

Is it really on anyone’s to-do list?

__________________It was first on Hitler's to-do list. It's been on the to-do list of Liberal's in this nation for years. They hate guns, many of them are vegan's and don't want anyone eating meat or owning guns. They don't want us to be able to defend ourselves from tyranny and oppression. They put their entire faith and trust in government. This is central to Socialism - full faith and trust in government rather than freedom of the people. We don't trust government. Over the years they have already passed restrictions on our rights to arms ourselves. See, government is made up of simply a bunch of your neighbors. We don't trust those bastards with ANYTHING - let alone "ruling" us. They want control. They want to rule. They want to impose THEIR will. THEIR worldview. They want to oppress others who don't support their ideology.

There's a problem with that - we are un-ruleable. We are governable, but we are not ruleable. We believe in the founding principals of freedom.

[Traviswf]

Let me get this straight.

When you guys talk about Obama’s national security force - you’re referring SOLELY to his comments in a July 2nd speech in Colorado Springs? Where he said:

“And we’re gonna we’ll also grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered, and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve gotta have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

This wasn’t a part of Obama’s prepared text, which suggests it’s an awkward wording of exactly what he’s talking about here: expanding the size of the diplomatic corps, Peace Corps, and other civilian projections of American soft power.

Now, there does not seem to be any mention anywhere else, ever about Obama raising some kind of new police force or “national security force.” There is, however, many articles written about Obama’s belief in “soft power” and diplomacy - as well as volunteer service like Americorps and the Peace Corps.

It seems like a massive stretch to take one off-script statement in one speech, in context with other aspects of service like Americorps and the Peace Corps - and extrapolate it to a gestapo like army of jack booted thugs.

It appears nowhere else in Obama’s campaign literature on his campaign site, or on Change.gov. None of the press who follow him have written about it - which they certainly would if it were an actual policy proposal.

Furthermore - if this were to become a real initiative - everyone would know about it. He’d have to propose it to congress, we could examine the language, both parties would debate it, etc. etc.

This seems a very far fetched concern based on a single (off script) utterance in a single speech, that furthermore neglects the reality such a proposal would face on the floor of congress before ever coming close to reality...

[AmericanGirlRising]

Now you’re defending Rahm after YOU likened him to an embarrassment?

*sigh

Go help chill things down in your town over the Mormon shilling going on. It is your party behind it - (see Facebook group to abolish tax-exempt status for LDS, CNN/CBS/MSNBC reporting of the Mormon influence).

You bat for the wrong team and I can’t wait to see the pending disappointment in your choices.

[Traviswf]

I never likened Emmanuel to an embarrassment. I think you got one of my posts crossed with another, maybe. It wasn’t my intention to suggest Rahm Emmanuel was an embarrassment, as I’ve never believed he was.

And I haven’t looked too much into the tax exempt fight with the LDS, but they funneled quite a bit of money into the Prop 8 fight - so turnabout seems fair play. But again, I don’t know the details of all of this yet.

[Traviswf]

I’m not sure where you were on 9/11 - but outside of New York and D.C., I don’t think there were too many hudddled masses in “survival mode.”

But, yes - the country, and its people, were still beautiful.

[jwalsh07]

Senator Obama declined to sign the amicus supporting the indivual right to keep and bear arms. 52 other Senators signed. Why do you suppose he declined to do so when the second amendment is clear that the right accrues to the individual?

And as an aside, could you list for me any rights in the United States Constitution that don't accrue to indivduals?

[AmericanGirlRising]

Comments from an Obama voter (not trolling)
Sun Nov 9 23:20:16 2008 · 595 of 635
Traviswf to AmericanGirlRising

“Every side has their embarrassments.”

Yes, you were likening Rahm to an embarrassment. It’s obvious you’ve bitten off more than you can chew here in FR thread. Shew....!

[Traviswf]

Interesting how you can discern that I was talking about Emmanuel in a five word post. I was actually referring to a woman who expected Obama to pay her mortgage and her bills and so forth. That’s who I referred to as an embarrassment.

Much like the right has their embarrassment, such as the woman who told John McCain she was afraid of Obama because he’s “an Arab.”

When 65 million people vote for a candidate - chances are you’ll find a large number of them who are not well informed or are voting for reasons you find laughable.

But no - that post had nothing to do with Rahm Emmanuel, and I’m sorry if I somehow lead you to come to that conclusion.

[jwalsh07]

...But - let's say Ayers was more diabolical and nefarious. Still planning some kind of insurgent action against the U.S....

William Ayers dedicated his new book Praire Fire to, among many others, one Sirhan Sirhan.

Your party, namely Barack Obama, gave him grants to "educate" children in Chicago.

As recently as 9/11/01 he was stepping on the flag while his countrymen were being buried.

How do you defend somebody like this by attempting to minimise what he did?

[jwalsh07]

Europe and Asia are cutting corporate taxes to spur economic growth. America has one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Do you think it is fair to American workers to have manufacturers build their wares in Ireland which has a very low corporate tax rate?

Like wise Senator Obama advocates raising the cap gains tax rate. Senator Obama seems to understand that raising capital gains tax rates applies downward pressure on GDP and employee wages. Yet he insists it is the "fair" thing to do.

Would you care to explain that to me?