My invention

djf

[djf]

A while back in February of this year I posted a thread asking if there were any FReepers with patents.

I had two purposes: to find out info about the getting-a-patent process, as well as hopefully find someone with a somewhat mutual interest who might join in.

Alot of FReepers provided good info about the getting part, and I researched the law, it is truly daunting.

So I have decided to show here a quick sketch of my invention. I have asked a number of folks (all who have signed NDA's) and everyone agrees that it is a very, very interesting concept, and none of them had ever seen it before.

For years I was interested in designs for reciprocating engines. One night I fell asleep thinking about it and the next morning I knew exactly what it was.

I have a number of associates who have detailed drawings of my idea and various configurations. It is extremely versatile, and slight changes to the design can make it suitable for a huge number of applications.

It is a rotor that can go in an engine.



The design is very simple, a hockey puck shaped rotor. The crankshaft comes straight out the center. But it is different from a Wankel type system, as it has a piston mounted in the rotor. As the piston is compressed against the spring, the rotor turns, and the piston goes back to it's rest position.

Anyways, I put together about 15 variations of the design, with multiple pistons, etc. The draft documents are in safes spread out over a couple states.

I retain any and all rights to this idea. I will sell the idea to a bidder for an appropriate amount and a nominal fee of ten US dollars per unit produced.

As of now, there are no prototypes. A huge advantage of the design is it can be powered by just about anything. Internal combustion, compressed air, magnetism, actual mechanical compression of the piston.

So that's it! I think it's an important find. If it's been done already, guess I gotta cry in my beer. But when people I know who have been working with engines and motors for thirty plus years tell me it's something worth pursuing, then I gotta do something about it.

[djf]

Yup.

Imagine it were mounted on something in front of you like a bicycle wheel, with the piston right there.

Whack the piston with a hammer so it goes down into the cylinder.

The unit will spin. It HAS to spin. It’s the laws of physics.

[Fichori]

Thats exactly what I posted a stock picture of.

I’m still trying to figure out how djf’s thing works!

[Jotmo]

If thats what the idea is, it sure does.

Also there have been motors of that type around for eons. The ones I've seen are pneumatic.

[chaos_5]

So what does the “whacking”?

[mrsmith]

I’m not “getting it” either.

look, if you supplied pumped water through the crankshaft and out that cavity with the piston, the rotor would turn- like a lawn sprinkler. If that’s the concept the piston prevents it from working.

[Jotmo]

That still doesn't answer why you need the spring, or piston for that mater.

I looks like you've made a turbine with little spring loaded pistons in the rotor buckets.

Got a better picture with the combustion chamber included?

[Rca2000]

This is not related to your idea at all.

But I had a patent idea of my own a while back. It was for a car safety device. I drew up some proposals and worked out the details, and a block diagram. I showed it to a few people in the “know” and ALL of them said it would work There was—and still is—NOTHING on the market like it, proposed or introduced. I applied for a provisional patent—and got one. I then was very confident that I could go “all the way” on it, and so, I had a patent search done for it. A”cursory search “ had already been done—and nothing was found. SO—I had the “whole smash” done, and was told it appeared that there was nothing like it out there anywhere. I was ready to begin with a partner and do a prototype, and hopefully—a sale after.

At the VERY END of the search—a BUNCH of old and not-too-old patents came to light, that were similar enough to what I have,...that I could NOT go any farther with mine. For some reason—SOMEONE has been “sitting on things” for up to 18 years, like my idea...just SITTING On them.

Perhaps—you have something—perhaps not. Just don't get “your hopes up” till you do a SERIOUS search.

[Fichori]

Rotary vane motors are what they put in pneumatic impact wrenches.

They also make rotary vane compressors.

What I want to try is, put a rotary vane compressor on a common shaft with a rotary vane motor.

the compressor feeds a firebox where kerosene in atomized and burned.
The firebox exhausts into the motor.

The compressor to motor ratio would have to be 1:>1
(Haven’t done the math, but 1:2 might be a starting point)

Basically a gas turbine, except instead of turbines, rotary vane compressor/motor.

I don’t have a drawing, but can you imagine that?

[djf]

This is just the passive rotor part.

It would be mounted in a round shaped holder that supplied compressed air, or one that had hemi heads and combustion chambers, or magnetic coils or whatever.

If it was used in an engine design, you might have say 3 pistons per rotor. You could then have three combustion chambers external to the rotor.

Then you could idle on one chamber, cruise on two chambers, pass or go uphill on three, whatever you want.
And firing timing would not be much of an issue, because as the piston itself rotated under the combustion chamber, it would be activated.

Really, it’s a very simple idea.

[mrsmith]

#Whack the piston with a hammer so it goes down into the cylinder.#... and then pushes back against the wall?
That’s what I thought.
Maybe if the wall around the rotor is slightly eccentric it could push all the way around but if hard the piston will just bind against the wall. If it’s made of something soft it will wear away.

Build one- the beauty of this, ifit works, is it’s simple to build.

[chaos_5]

I think I’ve seen this befor...
http://www.halfbakery.com/

[Jotmo]

Simple to you, but we can't see what your trying to do here. And the drawing in not much help.

Does the "top" of the piston stay in contact with the outside wall of whatever chamber the rotor is in?

[Fichori]

This is how I do up my designs:


Its a regulating 2-way quick exhausting valve for operating a pneumatic ram.

the ram connects to the bottom, the control valve to the top.
It exhausts out the side.

If you donate to the next FReepathon, I might be willing to do up some renderings of your design..

[RightOnTheLeftCoast]

I am not a lawyer, but I think you need one, because I think you just disclosed yourself out of a patent in non-U.S. markets, assuming you do indeed have something to patent. (I’m assuming you’re in the U.S.)

“In many cases, a provisional is filed the same day as a public disclosure of the invention, which disclosure could otherwise permanently jeopardize the patentability in non-US countries having strict requirements on “complete or absolute novelty.” In other cases the provisional application is filed soon after such a disclosure in order to preserve only the inventor’s U.S. patent rights.” [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_application]

“The filing date of an application is important as it sets a cutoff date after which any public disclosures will not form prior art (but the priority date must also be considered), and also because, in most jurisdictions (notably, not the USA) the right to a patent for an invention lies with the first person to file an application for protection of that invention (See: First to file and first to invent). It is therefore generally beneficial to file an application as soon as possible.” [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_application]

“Disclosure is the details of an invention which is made available to public. This may be deliberately revealed outside the patent system so as to make the invention unpatentable...” [http://www.hjventures.com/patent/patent-inventions.html]

“Under U.S. patent law, an inventor has one year from the date of first disclosure of the invention to file a U.S. patent application. The United States is the only major industrialized country in the world that allows for a public disclosure prior to the filing of a patent application. In the rest of the world, an “absolute novelty” rule is used. This rule bars patent protection for, in most cases, an invention that has been disclosed to the public any time prior to the filing of a patent application.” [http://www.essp-law.com/patent.htm]

I’d recommend talking with a patent attorney immediately.

[topsail]

Why not just go back to steam powered cars. I rode in a coal fired, steam powered taxi in Sasebo, Japan in the early 1950’s. We have lots of coal. If we don’t get our oil supply problems worked out we may have to revisit that technology.

I say that in a joking way but, if we continue to slide toward third world status, we will have to use an energy source that is relatively inexpensive and plentiful. Coal!

[Jotmo]

This is just the passive rotor part.

Passive? If it's passive, what's reacting to cause the rotor to turn?

It would be mounted in a round shaped holder that supplied compressed air, or one that had hemi heads and combustion chambers, or magnetic coils or whatever.

"magnetic coils"

Now you really lost me. How does that work?

If it was used in an engine design, you might have say 3 pistons per rotor. You could then have three combustion chambers external to the rotor.

So if the "chamber" is external to the rotor what are the reaction forces working against? The piston appears to be internal to the rotor.

I can only see two ways for this rotor to move.

One way and it's a sliding vain design. The other way and it's an impulse turbine, except with a spring loaded pistons in place of the buckets, which would be completely superfluous to such a design.

[count-your-change]

Given the details you’ve supplied there is nothing to make the piston go up and down except the rotor which is to be made to move by the piston going up and down.
Unless there is a WHOLE lot more not shown you’ve got a perpetual motion machine.

[Fichori]

"magnetic coils"

Like the coils in an electric motor.

You put current through the coils, that makes magnetism, which pulls on a permanent magnet, which causes rotation...

I think thats the idea anyway...

[Southack]

"With any other piston type engine, the piston goes up, then stops, then goes down. Each time it reverses direction, you are losing momentum."

Why do you need springs if nothing changes direction?

[count-your-change]

The torque then will be the total compressive force on the springs. Compression of the springs will force the rotor to move so long as the piston is exerting force on the springs.
At every position of rotation when the piston has returned to the top of its cylinder intake and exhaust valves will be needed. Raising the pressure in the cylinders high enough to compress the springs before the rotor turns past the intake and exhaust valving would seem to make the whole device incapable of sustained rotation.
I don't think your design is in any danger of being stolen.