Posted on 08/16/2008 5:38:38 AM PDT by WesternCulture
With all due respect, I'm pretty sure Dubya & Co will continue being the laughing stock of international affairs over here in Europe for a long time (- Hey, I'm aware you Americans have invested him with the highest of US offices, but I wrote "With all due respect" initially, so I won't drone on about how much many of us Europeans actually admire America, our common interests etc, out of sheer courtesy:D).
Europe and the US will remain best friends and just like my (personal) best friend since 30 years and I squabble from time to time (I'm 39), we're all in this civilization together - and together, we have a responsibility towards our origin as well the future of Western civilization.
Has the era of George W Bush defended as well as promoted Western values?
Most Conservatives around the globe probably agree, by today, that Reagan and Churchill made the right decisions in the field of global affairs of their time.
No sane person would wish to blow up an innocent little child playing in the street, whether that innocent little child happens to have been born into the totalitarian barbarity of Nazism, mid 19th century Japanese militarism, or the present Islamist disaster of government that currently plagues the remnants of a culture that once was known as Persia.
The men who truly understand what Niccolò Machiavelli was on about usually make good leaders (- and by the way, it ought to be acknowledged more often that Macchiavelli was a true Florentine republican who supported the idea of democracy ALTHOUGH he accepted the tradition of "i principi" - the monarchic despot rulers of Renaissance Italy/Europe of his time).
However, many of us Europeans doubt Bush JR is a new Reagan, Lincoln or Churchill.
There are some obvious reasons for this;
- The Bush administration has, more or less, apologized for the invasion of Iraq and seems to have given up on establishing law and order in the country. Perhaps this frustrated situation could all be blamed on Europe, but what good will it do?
- The Bush administration continues to be lenient towards the phenomena of illegal immigrants, especially those coming from south of the border. This is indeed something that continues to upset and irritate a lot of good, hard working Americans.
- The Bush administration has failed to maintain good relations with Europe. As a European, I'm well aware there are plenty of ignorant French, German and Italian crybabies among our "intellectuals". However, I'd say that while most of Western Civilization and our closest allies by today recognizes Reagan as a great leader of the free world, GWB never will be viewed in that way in my part of the world.
- The Bush administration has prove unable of coping with what might be the most severe threat to the US economy since the Great Depression, namely that of the Euro. The European economy is marked by slow growth since decades, but that doesn't matter much in this context as the fast decline of the USD we've seen in recent years constitutes a situation American economy doesn't seem prepared for. If American companies, at large, knew how to do business on European soil, the present conditions might have been of great advantage to overall American business life, but sadly enough we see very little of such initiatives taking place.
Europe can't tell the US what to do as well as vice versa and most good Europeans, in resemblance with good Americans, understand that's NOT what neither of us are here for. But let's continue the dialog for whatever it's worth - and in my opinion, preserving Western Civilization is worth a lot.
The invasion of Iraq might have been necessary sooner or later and the WOT absolutely is, but I also think most Westerners agree it's a better idea to fight these wars in a truly UNITED manner than to continue throwing mud at each other. Let's leave that to our teenagers on both sides of the pond.
Soldiers from many civilized nations (including mine), have died in the WOT and this fact alone calls for more of unity and determination among nations who are truly devoted to the irrepressible idea of human freedom.
Whatever one might say, George W Bush tried hard to become a new Reagan and some might say he was successful.
However; governments come and go, the US and other truly strong nations will, eternally, prevail.
The usual (cold hearted:D) love from Old Europe,
WesternCulture
“The Bush administration has, more or less, apologized for the invasion of Iraq and seems to have given up on establishing law and order in the country. Perhaps this frustrated situation could all be blamed on Europe, but what good will it do?
Huh? “
Exactly my reaction! When did this happen?
This is more or less a lie, the product of a hopeful but fevered imagination much like your whole post.
Surely you must be living under a rock.
If true democracy actually will conquer the swamp of Islam one day, GWB will probably be viewed as a very clear sighted leader.
We Europeans usually claim to have learned more out of history than Americans, but just as often it has been America who's made the right decisions.
Reagan is the shining example of this and as a European I wish to emphasize the fact that Europe could do more in the WOT.
Continued squabbling is no option if we sincerely wish to win the WOT.
We are the inheritors of the only civilization throughout the known universe where more or less each and every member willingly would risk his or hers life in order to defend, not only the life, but the LIBERTY of another person.
In French, American, Dutch, German, Croatian, Swedish, Italian, Canadian, Greek, Australian, Austrian (etc) schools of our time, young children are daily being taught
that democracy is worth dying for.
“WesternCulture”
As in what, San Francisco?
Exactly. Europe loved Bill Clinton because he was one of them - a blubbery, weak, appeasing socialist who had the same contempt for individual freedom and lack of respect for traditional morality as Europe. To the Europeans, the presidency of Bill Clinton, and the possibility of a Barack Obama (or Hillary Clinton) presidency, gives them hope that the exceptionalism of the American way will be done away with and the failures of European socialism, institutionalized dependency, unchecked Muslim immigration and the resulting chaos and lawlessness that ensues, and a totalitarian, one-world government system unhindered by freedom of religion and free elections will finally become a reality for the entire world.
The Europeans are hoping and praying to Gaia that Obama (or Hillary) wins this election because, among the many benefits for Europe, Barack Obama (or Hillary) will eliminate the possibility of capital fleeing the backward socialist countries of Europe and coming to America. With Barack Obama (or Hillary) at the American helm, the one-worlders will finally have a chance to achieve their dream of an entire globe of peasants and serfs working the fields with just a few billionaire ruling elites running the world.
That is why they hate George W. Bush. He is simply not one of them and has, for eight long years, stood in the way of their hopes and dreams and has been the man who has, more that any other, stood as a symbol of the vast differences between American freedom and European socialism and American steadfastness and resolve and European capitulation and weakness.
And by the way - real Americans couldn't care less if Europe "loves" us or not. Basically, Europe has no credibility on much of anything.
Not for me. I have been to both a number of times and I actually prefer the cleaner, cheaper, funner and more capitalistic version of Europe on the Las Vegas Strip. I am sure most Europeans secretly agree as well.
Ya’ll did not have to learn German last century, twice.
Gee, why would that be?
How long would “neutrality” have lasted if the rest of Europe spoke German?
Are ya’ll planning to learn Arabic this century?
One of the main premises of your post, that America and Europe will remain friends is flawed. Nations have no “friends” only common interests. That America’s and Europe’s interest at this particular time are divergent are quite obvious. But ask yourself why? America, under George Bush has decided that rather then accept the attack on the homeland as Britain, Japan, Germany, France and so many others have done, in the interests I suppose of “ignoring the bad guys and they will go away”, has decided to confront the enemy.
You assume that because there are many of you who believe as you do that it makes you right. Right will be judged by history as will the legacy of GWB. Over the past 2 years France has seen and allowed 10’s of thousands of automobiles to be destroyed by renegade terrorists. Britain has seen bombs exploded on it’s buses and Spain has seen it’s trains blown up by animals who correctly judged the inherent weakness of the current population. It seems you and others in Europe have all somehow become Neville Chamberlains, happily believing that peace is accessible simply by wanting it bad enough.
Britain is but a shadow of what it was in the past, a past that saw that little country exhibit the heart of a Lion under the leadership of possibly the greatest force of sheer will, Winston Churchill. It is not America that has run away from Europe, it is Europe that has run away from America. You have made the choice to forgo your own national defense in order to hand to your citizens a cradle to grave hammock that has merely serves to make all of you lazy and dependent. I find it amazing you don’t realize the way to get more of something is to subsidize it and this it what you have done.
As for the strength or lack thereof of our currency relative to the Euro, you may want to take note that the dollar has seen rather remarkable turnaround in the past 2 weeks. You make the same mistake most people make and that is you believe what goes up will always go up and vice versa. Currencies are commodities and fluctuate with the economies of the nation owning them as well as the general political situation. In times of danger as we are seeing now with Russia, coupled with the slowing of economies throughout Europe, currencies are seeking their TRADITIONAL safe haven, the US Dollar. To put it bluntly, when the sh*t hits the fan, whether it be economic or political, people want to put their cash where they KNOW it will be safe and available to them when things calm down. America is that place and will remain so for the foreseeable future. As almost 25% of the entire worlds output of goods and services and by far the worlds largest consumer, it is the engine that pulls the entire worlds economic train. If America becomes economically derailed, the rest of the train goes into the ditch with us. That is a fact and although it may at some point change it will not do so anytime soon.
George Bushes’s job is to protect America, it’s number one on any American presidents job list. Pleasing European nations or anyone else for that matter is so far down on the list as to be not worthy of mention. Whether Europeans or Asians or anyone else likes us or doesn’t makes no difference because they will both buy from us as well as sell to us.
As I said in the beginning, nations have no friends, only common interests. As for George Bush’s legacy, no one in America that matters really cares what Europeans think. After all, you folks actually thought Bill Clinton was a good president, didn’t you?
Finally, for some reason you Europeans stick your noses into our elections. You for some reason think it important that we know who YOU like for our president. You did this in 2000, 2004 and are again doing this. Here’s the deal, we DON’T care, it is NONE of your business who Americans want as their president as it is none of our business who you elect for your PM. One would think after notifying us that 90% of you wanted Kerry to win and seeing it did no good you would have learned. We have not forgotten the insulting headline in 2004 after Bush rather roundly defeated Kerry by over 3 MILLION votes, “How Can 300 Million Americans Be So Dumb”. Tell me, where do you people get your arrogance from? Just what is it you have to be arrogant about? Is it your wealth, your technical prowess, your military might, what?
Tell you what, how about you buy our stuff and we’ll buy yours. Meanwhile we’ll spend our blood and treasure protecting you and the rest of the civilized world from the bad guys, since you are both unwilling and incapable of doing it yourselves. We ask nothing from you, not even your voiced appreciation but do us one favor will you? When it comes to your opinion of America and its policies, our president, no matter who he may be, and our beliefs both religious and political, just STFU.
Seriously, we really don’t give a damn what you think.
yawn.
Well, when Reagan was Reagan, most Europeans doubted he was "Reagan." I lived thru that era and I remember the ridicule and brickbats directed at Reagan from Europe. If anything, the anti-Reagan hysteria was worse than the anti-Bush hysteria. Now, thru the rosy lens of the years, Reagan becomes a giant and Bush is the new "old Reagan."
Like Reagan, Bush has won an extraordinarily important war despite vigorous obstruction from our European "allies." Both Reagan and Bush demanded that Europeans face reality instead of the fantasy world Europeans and the American left occupy, in which we all sit down with our enemies and reach an understanding. And Europeans hated both of them for that reason.
Reagan saved Europe from itself. Bush bought Europe 20 years to get its act together in the face of Jihad and Sharia. The only difference is, Reagan asked Europeans to get out of their comfort zone and do the right thing 30 years ago. Bush is asking them to do it today. They hated Reagan 30 years ago. They hate Bush today.
Frankly, I could give a hoot what Europeans think of him. And it doesn't matter. Bush's gift of time will be ignored. The Muslim occupation of Europe will continue. So Europeans will all be living under Sharia law in 50 years anyway and will be largely irrelevant, except as a breeding ground for terrorists. I just hope the few sensible folks remaining don't let Muslims get their hands on the Louvre. That would be a huge tragedy on top of the self-inflicted loss of the cradle of Western Civilization.
Maggie Thatcher is the sole European exception to this post.
lol! You owe me a new keyboard due to it’s baptism of milk just now from my nostrils.
I like the way you think too.
“In 50 years there will be very few Europeans..
They are aborting their next generation..
But the Muslims are breeding like Pigs..”
- I’m no supporter of Islam and definitely no foe of the US, but I’m rather convinced that in 50 years or so, people like you will continue posting irrelevant nonsense while smoking toxic leaves originating from Latin American countries lead by morons like Chávez (doesn’t “chávez” mean something like f*** in Spanish slang by the way?) - while Europeans like I, continuously, will be enjoying beers originating from our own soil and our own hard work.
I would think, though, the flip side is that in such gulags as Haeryong and Yodok, D.P.R.K., though, if word has reached them, he has lost all previous held popularity.
Ping for later comment. Mark my words...In 2 years we wiil be longing for the time of GWB. I will explain later...If I find something that my astute freepers have omiteed in this thread.
Not enough conservatism!
no zot yet?
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