Libertarian ping! To be added or removed freepmail me or post a message here.
Posted on 07/29/2008 8:38:33 PM PDT by me_a_republican
Dear fellow forum members,
What are the best reasons or arguments you can think of to keep marijuana illegal?
It would really really help to if you can reply only after reading http://www.nationalreview.com/12feb96/drug.html .
Thank you.
Mr. Jeeves, you are entirely too cynical!
In my view, the uses of common plants ought to be beneath the dignity of the state to recognize.
But as you point out, there’s no money or power in that!
From my personal observations, I'd estimate that about 80% of freepers fall into this category. 15% of freepers are misguided or just plain stupid and support it being illegal while keeping alcohol legal, and 5% are at least respectfully consistent and support both being illegal.
The main one for me is that the person smoking this crap always gets blasted,(drunk on his ass) there is no part way. I would look for alcohol to be outlawed before pot is lawful.
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I’m sorry, but you could not be more wrong. Why is it that the drug warriors seem so intent on the notion that the effect of alcohol is like a spectrum, but that marijuana is a on/off switch? It is just silly.
Just like with booze, if one smokes a little, they catch a little buzz (think: glass of wine or 2). Of one smokes a lot, the buzz is considerably greater (think: multiple shots of tequila without the subsequent loss of motor control and bouts of throwing up).
Would you be down with making alcohol illegal?
I bet you he's one of these colored jazz musicians who have been having sex with white girls.
I love how the people who post judgments on others' intelligence like this have no idea how to capitalize or punctuate.
potheads are stupid
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undoubtedly some are. my guess is that they were stupid first, potheads second.
There are also undoubtedly several potheads in your professional circle that you know nothing about, who may be experiencing an enviable degree of professional success.
you talk to 100 heroin/crack/meth addicts and 99 will tell ya that they started with pot.
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As in their first experience with illegal drugs was pot. Their first drug was (and you know it as well as I do) the much more readily available alcohol.
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed freepmail me or post a message here.
Amongst my acquaintances, there are two business owners, 3 teachers, a medical doctor and one of the top female marathon runners in the state of New Jersey. All of them enjoy the occasional puff. And the only people I personally know who are vocally anti-marijuana are less educated blue-collar types who pound Budweiser and cheap whiskey on a regular basis. Go figure.
I’ve never used an illegal drug in my life, but I’ve researched about every different type of booze buzz there is, including level 6 in a trailer park, and I believe pot should be legalized. When I think about it, the only reason I can come up with for not legalizing it is that I hate hippies and hate the idea of them getting anything they want. Other than that, jailing people for mary jane is asinine. Allowing Pharmacies to dispense hard-core addictive drugs, such as Oxy, but flipping out about pot is plain anti-intellectual. The WOD has done more damage to civil liberties than anything else I can think of that’s been instituted by the goobermint. It was an open door for nanny-statism in this country.
I am constantly amazed at how many conservatives are adamant about their rights especially when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, yet will immediately dismiss others rights to the use of a plant which is not addictive, does not increase peoples desire for violence as alcohol does to soem people. Considering the 9th and 10th Amendments, the criminlization of marijuana is unconstitutional as the people have never consented to having their rights to use chemical substances abridged in any way.
The problem is, under our rather unique form of government, We, the People, gave government (through the Constitution) authority to do certain things in our names and on our behalf. We cannot, however, give to anyone that which is NOT OURS TO GIVE. And we, as individuals, do not have any legitimate authority to regulate or control one single, solitary thing that someone else does in the privacy of his own home which does not involve the involuntary participation of another. If we hear someone screaming bloody murder from next door and we reasonably believe that the person’s life is in danger, we can (and should) ride to the rescue. And we can hire someone else to do that for us. If, on the other hand, we see our neighbor sitting on his back yard patio, smoking a joint and harming no one else involuntarily, WE HAVE NO SUCH AUTHORITY AND CANNOT PROPERLY INTERFERE OURSELVES OR HIRE SOMEONE TO DO IT FOR US. This is what the founders gave us and it is this that differentiates us from ALL OTHER governments in history. That we are the first nation to be founded on a total respect for our God-GIVEN (NOT government-granted) rights. Thus, the ONLY rules and regulations ANY level of government may properly impose would be solely at the local level (most assuredly NOT at State or FedGov level) and only to regulate PUBLIC use of something (when and where you may fire a weapon in a non-emergency situation but NEVER what sort of weapon you may own or possess, even in public) or public behavior when indulging in mind-altering substances of whatever nature, pot, alcohol, heroin, whatever.
As for use of marijuana increasing when it becomes legal, I think use probably would increase at first, but my bet is it wouldn't go up that much and it might end up going down in time. Look at what's happening with tobacco use. Tobacco is legal yet use of tobacco is going down. Less people are taking up smoking and even though nicotine is extremely addictive, a whole heck of a lot more than marijuana, a lot of people are actually quitting cigarettes. Marijuana smoking is also an unhealthy habit. There are plenty of good reasons not to smoke it. Personally, I doubt the laws against marijuana deter that many people from using it because the likelihood of getting caught is so slim and if people do get caught the punishments are not that severe. There are probably not that many people out there who really want to smoke marijuana but won't do it simply because it's illegal. I think what keeps most from smoking it are all the other bad things about marijuana, the fact that it makes people forgetful, that it turns so many into blithering idiots in social situations, the fact that it's a time waster that stinks and makes your breath smell bad, is bad for teeth and gums, etc. More than half of all adults under 60 in this country have tried it, yet hardly any of those people still smoke it. If it was so great most would still smoke it. If marijuana was legalized use probably would go up some at first, probably mostly among people who had smoked it before but quit, but in time they'd see that all the negatives associated with marijuana smoking are still there, and most would decide marijuana is still not for them.
For decades now the U.S. has had higher per capita marijuana use rates than just about any other country in the world. Very few countries have even close to the per capita use rates we have. Marijuana isn't completely legal anywhere that I know of, but in some of these other countries where per capita use is a lot lower than it is in the U.S. marijuana is practically legal. In some countries possession of small amounts isn't a crime. In some sales of marijuana, while not technically legal, are allowed. In Holland marijuana production isn't legal, but they allow licensed retail shops to sell what they buy off the black market. There are hundreds of these shops in Holland. They are not hidden. Some will even have pictures of marijuana leafs on their signs. Some are chains. Some display their product in glass cases for all in the shop to see. They all have menus listing various varieties of marijuana and hashish with prices. Possession of marijuana is not a crime there. It's practically legal, yet far fewer Dutch than Americans have even tried marijuana and a lower percentage are current smokers. There are going to be cultural differences between Dutch and Americans, but we aren't that much different. We wouldn't see our whole population go nutty and all of the sudden everyone takes up pot smoking. That hasn't happened in any country ever that I know of. Even where it is practically legal only a small portion of the public chooses to use marijuana. I think we're pretty close to the natural limit. Most who would really like it already do it. Most of us though won't smoke marijuana legal or not because we don't like it and/or we know it's just a bad thing to get involved with for a number of reasons not having anything to do with its legal status.
I agree that we need to draw a line. I don't want all drugs to be legal because so many are so dangerous and some are just incredibly addictive. The risk of harm to innocent people is too great. I think it's a mistake though for us to draw that line at marijuana though, for a number of reasons. First, it's far too popular. It's everywhere. The ban doesn't work at all. It's easily available and relatively cheap when you look at how much it costs for a single use. You can get high for pennies. At least prohibition keeps drugs like cocaine and heroin relatively expensive, and a drug like heroin is so unpopular that you won't even be able to find it in most parts of America. It's in the big cities and some small towns, but it isn't everywhere like marijuana. I'm an attorney and I've handled literally thousands of pounds worth of drugs cases, millions of dollars worth. Big cases, small cases, I've handled them all, but in all the years I've done it I've only had one heroin case and these guys were drug mules caught driving down the highway who wouldn't have even stopped in my area had the police not pulled them over. We have plenty of cocaine and meth, and marijuana is just all over the place, but heroin is rarely ever found here. If it was legal and sold in a shop here in town, what was once pretty much unavailable would be available, and while most wouldn't touch it some would to see what it is all about and before long we'd have trouble making heroin addicts in this town where before we had none. That wouldn't be an issue though with marijuana because it is easily available everywhere already, and relatively cheap too.
The market for illegal drugs is huge. Marijuana is the most popular of all illegal drugs. More people use marijuana than all other drugs combined. A huge part of the marijuana consumed in this country, probably most, is smuggled from south of the border. Most of the drug smuggling activity is marijuana smuggling. Most of the drug transactions in this country are marijuana sales. There is a huge infrastructure in place for the illegal marijuana trade, from production, to smuggling and distribution throughout the country and finally retail sales. Since these massive networks are already in place for the multibillion dollar marijuana industry, we see an awful lot of the hard stuff going through the existing marijuana channels. Why should these guys reinvent the wheel. The infrastructure is there to move a lot of drugs. It's easy to just use existing marijuana smugglers or marijuana distributors to move the other stuff. There are already all sorts of small timers out there selling a little weed to their friends. It makes sense for major drug traffickers to get some cocaine or ecstasy or meth to these people to sell to their existing customers and that is exactly what happens every day in this country. If we make marijuana legal, not only will we rob these huge drug trafficking organizations of billions and billions of dollars in revenue, we'll take from them these very valuable distribution networks that make it easy for them to distribute the hard stuff.
Prohibition is least effective against marijuana. It's already easily available everywhere. It's already relatively cheap on a “per buzz” basis. Marijuana, while certainly not harmless, is the least harmful it seems of the illegal drugs. It's not particularly addictive. People don't usually have any trouble quitting it, and most who smoke it do in fact end up growing out of that phase in their lives and leaving it alone. No one ever dies from marijuana overdoses. Marijuana use doesn't appear to cause much crime. A good 75% or better of all the battery cases I've seen in court have been cases where some drunk guy got riled up and got stupid and/or mean. You just don't see that with marijuana. It doesn't have that effect on people. It doesn't make people violent and you don't see a lot property crimes committed so that people can get money to buy pot. It's just not that bad. I wouldn't want to be in the habit of smoking it but I can't get all worked up about someone else choosing to use it. We need to live and let live and if people aren't hurting other people or putting people at a great deal of unnecessary risk of serious harm we need to leave them alone. We should draw the line at drugs like meth. but marijuana should be regulated similar to the way we regulate alcohol.
They probably started with tobacco and alcohol, but that doesn't mean that the tobacco and/or alcohol made them want to use heroin/crack/meth. There is nothing about smoking marijuana that makes people want to use harder drugs. If teens are out hanging around a rougher crowd smoking and drinking, they're more likely to be offered other drugs, and they are more likely to be the type that would interested in other stuff. Make marijuana legal, and it won't be anymore of a gateway drug than tobacco and alcohol because the people that sell pot from licensed shops won't be any more likely to sell cocaine/heroin/meth than the clerk at the liquor store and just the fact that someone smokes marijuana won't make him part of the illegal drug taking crowd and therefore safe to break the other stuff out in front of. We need to separate marijuana from heroin/crack/meth and the way to do that is to legalize it. Then it would be no more of a gateway drug than cigarettes or beer.
The effects of alcohol were pretty well known long before 1933.
I hate to bust your bubble but there are meny health reasons not to use the drug. The main one for me is that the person smoking this crap always gets blasted,(drunk on his ass) there is no part way.
Where do you get this crap? That is flat-out completely untrue. There is also no boogeyman, no Easter bunny, babies aren't delivered by a stork, and you won't go blind if you touch yourself. No, I don't know why grown-ups told you these things when you were little.
I would look for alcohol to be outlawed before pot is lawful.
That would be the answer to the most fervent prayers of organized crime everywhere, not to mention anyone who wants to bring about a police state.
40% of adults have used marijuana at some point in their lifetime; why not expand the pool of criminals to encompass the 83% who've used alcohol? I mean, no one is concerned about the rights of criminals, so if we can just make everyone a criminal, that whole pesky civil rights thing goes right out the window.
If you scratch under their surface, you'll find that a good portion of the anti-pot crowd are gun-grabbers or, at best, ambivalent about gun rights.
1) I'm not asking anyone for information on these substances.
2) I quit smoking in 1989 due to the effects my smoking was having on my asthmatic son and daughter. 3) I'm quite capable of making up my own mind on whether I should or should not have a drink; whether I'm capable of operating a motor vehicle after having alcohol; and how much I should imbibe at any one time without someone needing to babysit me. Since I've made it through 49 years of life without driving under the influence and without destroying my liver by making good choices. 4) There is a significant difference between the use of legal and illegal alcohol - illegal alcohol often results in severe consequences such as blindness or death with only a small amount consumed. Legal alcohol, in most cases of alcohol poisoning, results after significant quantities have been consumed. How much is too much marijuana? What else was added to the marijuana to boost its effects (or even make it purposefully dangerous to use)? Explain how marijuana damages chromosomes involved in reproduction, and can significantly negatively impact the development of a person's offspring (this effect can happen prior to the fertilization process as marijuana impacts the development of spermazoa and can damage the ovum).? Alcohol does not have this effect pre-pregnancy. I could go on, but your obvious liberal(tarian) philosophy is showing badly.
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