Posted on 06/08/2008 8:41:46 AM PDT by TLI
I am wondering if any of the adult women, who were held by CPS as underage mothers, were named Sarah.
I don’t know.
Wouldn’t it be nice if there was one place that had a list of all the actual ‘facts’, line by line?
I think (and I know it happens to me) that it is very difficult for one person to retain an exact memory of every last detail, and to have pursued each detail enough to verify or discard it.
I do my best, and so do you, and countless others.
However, we have a tendency to remember those things which support our ‘conclusions’ or our ‘beliefs’, and ignore those which don’t.
That’s why this forum is so good. We each can contribute. Each of us has a ‘different’ stream of memories of the events.
Anyway, I don’t specifically recall any articles stating that any of the ‘underage mothers’ were named Sarah, but that could be because my brain is about to explode from trying to remember ‘everything’ and trying to keep in mind where each poster is ‘coming from’.
Sorry I can’t help at the moment. If I see it, I’ll let you know.
Have you seen any of RED STATE UPDATE? On Youtube?
Indeed, if they are truly forced. They may have evolved to that with the latest, and now deposed, "prophet". But as I said on a earlier post, I've seen reports that they were arranged, but not forced. Of course, as in other societies with arranged marriages, parents can be pretty persuasive.
And of course any religion is no excuse for violating the statute law..provided the law in question is itself not violation Constitutionally guaranteed freedom religion. That is certainly not the case with underage "marriages" and sex with children.
Comment:
No
By red state, I mean as in voting conservative values.
Just don’t expect everyone else to share your view.
Comment:
On a forum such as Free Republic I would expect there to be a diversity of opinion.
I have doubts but some FReepers may even be working for the CPS.
Yes, I do have personal experience or should I say a nightmarish experience with CPS.
I learned a very hard and expensive lesson about complaining to my child's school concerning incompetency of a teachers aid.
Malicious revenge is so sweet when it can be done anonymously with no fear of retribution from the victim.
Most of the group of 100 or so parents of children with disabilities that I belong, have also had their nightmares with CPS interference.
Once identified as an “At Risk Family” by CPS, life for parents permanently changes for the worse in most cases.
Lots of CPS agents have bachelor degrees in psychology and that is probably good.
However, most of those individuals with degrees have attended extremely liberal colleges and universities with psychology departments that are radically left leaning.
They come out of these radical left wing places of higher education with the idea that “IT TAKES A VILLAGE” to help ignorant parents raise their at risk child.
Well thats my opinion, you can disagree and that is OK.
Well, here’s a link to just one of their episodes.
warning: some profanity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26scTKqmXt8
Hope you enjoy it.
Thanks for the opportunity to put myself in your shoes, and understand where you are coming from.
But that isn't particularly logical. If she could call Rosita, she could just as well have called the hot line herself, or better yet, dialed 911. Then there would be no questions about the legality of the warrant and the first "raids" (plural because the CPS raid was technically separate from the Texas Rangers raid).
When CPS went in, they said they were looking for ‘Sarah’. The YFZ Ranch members said there was no such person. CPS found six girls named Sarah . When CPS went in, they said they were looking for ‘Sarah’. The YFZ Ranch members said there was no such person. CPS found six girls named Sarah .
Or did they say they were looking for 16 y/o Sarah, who was "spiritually married" to Dale what's his name in Arizona?
The other (which involves actual evidence) is that Rosita Swinton had an entire library of material on the Mormons, and the FLDS.
This was likely her source of information, but some of the specifics could have come from some other source.
Would have had to, since she was reporting on things going on in the shelters that weren't public knowledge at the time.
You know, that could very well be interpreted as prejudging the outcome of a future criminal trial. Never a good idea for a public official to be doing that. It can poison the jury pool and prevent a fair trial. Some higher court judges might take a dim view of that on appeal.
I think as we both understand that this issue is just speculation, I can proceed.
Maybe Sarah couldn’t call Rosita. Maybe she wrote her letters, or possibly Sarah wrote them to someone else, and Rosita got copies.
Who would Sarah write too, if she felt the need? How would she get the letters out of the YFZ Ranch?
Maybe Sarah gave them to one of the boys being cast out.
Maybe he got them to Flora Jessop, or Carolyn, or Rosita, or a CPS worker somewhere.
For all we know, a CPS worker got them from a Lost Boy, and Rosita stole them from their offices, while on a visit.
There are many ways it could happen, but they are all pretty far-fetched.
I think we will have to wait until (and if) the evidence is revealed in trial, about the phone calls, about the details on Sarah, and whether it was really Dale Barlow, or Merrill Jessop that was the alleged abuser, to know.
I addressed that in another post, but It might have been on another thread.
Since I don’t know their exact words, I can’t say.
The CPS may not have mentioned Dale Barlow to the children, just a pregnant Sarah that was 16. That would seem the most logical thing.
To the parents, they would be asking about the location of both.
IIRC, the adults denied there was any girl named Sarah at the compound.
The children, when told she was 16 and pregnant, said that she had been at the Ranch two weeks ago, but they hadn’t seen her since.
So, there’s a take it all with a grain of salt answer.
Yeah. Not general public, but was it available publicly somewhere?
One can search put in a name on the internet and see if someone has been a defendant and found guilty, in court.
Or, maybe Rosita (knowing that she has had a long term ‘relationship’ with CPS), might have had a way of getting inside information.
Again, lot’s of speculation, little proven fact.
Was it due to FLDS not allowing them in to do any investigating?
I do believe WELFARE had been in investigating, and they were the ones that filed the original complaint with CPS that led to getting a warrant.
So, those who claim the phone call was the ‘only’ reason for the warrant, cannot be correct.
This thing is such a mess. I still hope it comes out for the best.
So now Sarah is mailing letters as CPS is picking up the kids, and then also mailing them from the shelters. Yea, right.
IIRC, the adults denied there was any girl named Sarah at the compound.
No what you recall is that CPS said the adults denied there was any "Sarah" there. It was CPS that was looking for "Sarah", the Ranger was supposed to be looking for Dale, since they had an arrest warrant for him.
But what the FLDS adults may have denied was a 16 y/o Sarah, or Sarah "married" to Dale, who wasn't there. But we weren't there, and given how wrong the CPS has turned out to be on so many specific details, I'm not real inclined to believe they were telling the whole story.
What I meant is that Sarah could have been writing letters over the past year, and Rosita used them when she started calling.
Accepted. CPS said the adults denied there was any Sarah there.
Maybe they were telling the truth, partially. Stating she wasn’t there, isn’t the same as saying she had never been there.
IIRC, CPS stated that the adults said she was never there.
I guess they were lying about that, or where they telling the truth?
Yeah. That’s a major problem. None of us were there, and we have nothing so far but the reports in the media, and statements from the Sheriff, the CPS workers, the LE, the Governor, and all those other disreputable, and proven liars (/sarc)
Yet, the FLDS members made public statements. I had links to the interviews with three flds men, and three women.
They seemed confused, and several of them were obviously mentally retarded. That’s not a slam, just obvious.
One of the FLDS men stated that they didn’t even ‘know’ that child-bride practice was against the law.
When they admit they don’t know that something that is allegedly an integral part of their ‘doctrines’ supplied by Warren Jeffs, then it is reasonable to suspect it is being practiced.
Once again, we will have to wait for the LE and the courts to handle all this, so we can see the truth of what was really going on at the YFZ Ranch, even if the truth is that no laws were being violated.
Sorry some of my sentences got short circuited. It’s real late, and I IZ TIRED.
Now, I agree, that is no proof.
But the state seems to think they have sufficient proof.
The Governor seems awfully confident.
We will see.
And Thank you for your comments and the discussion, today and this evening.
At this point, from all I've read on the subject, this cult (religion?) is guilty of some very unsavory practices, using "religion" as an excuse. Aside from the indoctrination and control of children, their polygamous (more accurately "polygynist") lifestyle is against the law.
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