Posted on 06/08/2008 8:41:46 AM PDT by TLI
Texas Gov. takes blame if FLDS raid 'stepped across some legal line'
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 06/06/2008 02:15:33 PM MDT
Texas Gov. Rick Perry says he accepts personal blame if Texas "stepped across some legal line" in its raid on a polygamous ranch, while at the same time defending the removal of more than 400 children from the FLDS' Yearning for Zion Ranch in April.
In a report today in the Dallas Morning News, Perry said, "I still think that the state of Texas has an obligation to young women who are forced into marriage and underage sex - to protect them. That's my bottom line on this."
Perry made the comments during a visit to France today, according to the News.
The newspaper quoted the governor as saying he hopes state law enforcement officials and prosecutors "continue to send the message" to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that child sexual abuse won't be tolerated.
As I understand it, this won’t fly unless they can prove the state knew the report was false and proceeded anyway. I sincerely doubt they can do so, as I believe the state initially acted in good faith.
Otherwise every search warrant later shown to be based on inaccurate information would be thrown out.
He first became governor when GW Bush was elected President in December of 2000. He was elected on his own in 2002 and re-elected in 2006. There are no term limits, so he's up again in 2010.
And Good Hair. Don't forget the hair. :)
Suggested changes?
Is Jeffs the only lawbreaker in that cult? I don't think so, and I doubt the authorities do, either. When young, indoctrinated girls are assigned to marry some older man, or for that matter ANY man, that man deserves to be prosecuted.
The adult women who quietly stand by and allow this to happen need to be charged with a crime, even if they had the same experience. This is a sick social group and maybe some jail time will bring them to their senses.
There are other problems other than just accurate information. A warrant is supposed to be based on "oath or affirmation", but one can hards swear to the veracity of someone who they don't even know. Generally warrant affidavits say something like "Joe Blow, personally known to me, stated that..., or even if no name is provided, they'll still "based on information from a usually reliable source *known to me*". Nobody knew who this Sarah was, and they didn't try to find out either. Which would have been difficult, since she apparently does not exist.
There's a whole lot of odd stuff in conjunction with good old "Sarah". For example, she continued to call the "crisis center" while the raid was ongoing, and even after at least some of the children had been taken. She reported accurately on goings on with the children, as well as weather at the places they were being held. IOW, someone was feeding "Sarah", AKA "Rosita" (IIRC) information from the scene, while she was all that time in Colorado.
If they did, in YFZ case in Texas, they didn't put anything about any other independently developed evidence in the affidavit for the warrant to search the ranch for "Sarah", and to arrest her supposed "husband", a man known by the local Sheriff to be in Arizona and in frequent face to face contact with his parole officer in Utah.
Hasn't so far. They and their predecessor groups have been around since the LDS abolished polygamy, in the 1890s. They've been bumping heads with the law every since. Other than the polygamy, their age of marriage wasn't that much younger than in the larger society until fairly recently, when they got a bit younger, maybe due to earlier menarche in the females, and of course in the larger society, marriage ages have gotten much older..in general and when the females bother to get married at all.
Maybe there's another way to bring them into the 21st century, but I haven't a clue what it might be. You might get them to give up marriage at ages younger than 16 (the law in Texas, with parental permission) but getting them to give up polygamy is going to be a tough row to hoe, because it's too entwined with their religious beliefs.
I have met Perry a few times but to me he seems like the cookie cutter RINO.
Out here in California, Parents of handicapped children should never let down their guard, never, when dealing with the state.
I just wish the state would be as concerned about murdering children under 9 months as they seem to be about child abuse.
In my meetings with parents with children diagnosed with autism and ADHD I tell them to be very careful when seeking help for their child.
The very fact that anyone can anonymously make a complaint without due process or recourse to the parent and that could eventually cause the loss of your children and thousands of dollars in attorney fees, should make all Americans concerned.
To cite examples of countries which believe in arranged marriages carries no weight in the U.S. That is not a part of our culture.
It's a fact that marriage has been seriously abused in this country and, probably most other countries. It's a disgrace and certainly not victimless. No one wants Big Brother to step in and end the nonsense with new laws. Ha, ha. Big Brother is knee-deep in this crap, also.
“She reported accurately on goings on with the children, as well as weather at the places they were being held. IOW, someone was feeding “Sarah”, AKA “Rosita” (IIRC) information from the scene, while she was all that time in Colorado. “
When CPS went in, they said they were looking for ‘Sarah’.
The YFZ Ranch members said there was no such person.
CPS found six girls named Sarah .
Anyway, it’s just one ‘option’ on this.
The other (which involves actual evidence) is that Rosita Swinton had an entire library of material on the Mormons, and the FLDS.
This was likely her source of information, but some of the specifics could have come from some other source.
As always, until the investigation into Rosita plays out, we don’t know.
“I look at the CPS as nothing more than jackbooted thugs overstepping the Constitution.”
Well, at least you are honest.
Yet, if someone said the FLDS members were nothing more than child molesters who deserved what they got, what would you say?
Because, both statements are truly ignorant.
So what you are speculating is that someone from inside the compound sought out a known hoaxer in Colorado, passed along information pertaining to their reality inside the compound, encouraged her to place phone calls to a shelter so that the shelter could contact authorities and CPS = thus they could be rescued.
Makes perfect sense to me. Why hadn’t I thought of that. LMAO
I am just wondering if it would have been easier to just call 911.
Two upper courts agree that they overstepped.
“So what you are speculating “
Exactly. Someone asked me to speculate upon this ‘new’ information.
I mentioned more than one option.
I like to lay out as many possibilities as I can, and then proceed to eliminate them one at a time, based on logic, and evidence (when possible).
For instance:
Flora Jessop or Carolyn Jessop may have been ‘feeding’ info to Rosita.
Rosita had made a study of the Mormons,FLDS,LDS (based on actual evidence).
Rosita may have harbored racist reasons for wanting to hurt the Mormons. (though why she thought doing so to the FLDS would hurt the Mormons, I don’t know. However, it has caused them problems).
Rosita wasn’t the only one who ever phoned in complaints about the FLDS.
It was however, the straw that broke the camel’s back, and put CPS in a position where they had to act.
You see, Flora Jessop was going public about the ‘call’ she got, and she believed it to be ‘true’.
Had she done so and the CPS not acted, well, you know what would have resulted.
Come to think of it, maybe it would have been better if it had happened that way.
It certainly hasn’t turned out that well for most of the people involved in this case, so far.
Yet, if someone said the FLDS members were nothing more than child molesters who deserved what they got, what would you say?
Because, both statements are truly ignorant.
Comment:
True ignorance fellow FReeper is a belief in Consequentialism.
You also show LACK OF KNOWLEDGE of never having dealt personally with CPS in the state of California or Texas.
Further Comment:
“Yet, if someone said the FLDS members were nothing more than child molesters who deserved what they got, what would you say?”
I would say that unlike Mother Russia, Cuba or China our founders in America thought it was best that a person or entity was innocent of violating laws/charges until proved guilty.
CPS uses accusations by MANDATED ACCUSERS using ANONYMINITY to convict parents and break up families.
In the case of the Texas and California CPS the End Justifies the Means.
Just the lowly opinion of (in your opinion) an Ignorant FReeper and a red state wannabe.
None of them were the "Sarah" they were looking for, whose full name, they had. It's a common enough name. Comes from the Old Testament.
It would have been very helpful to have been there, and heard the actual conversations, as many times what we are told is lacking in details.
However, it does make one wonder why, if it is such a common name, and there were six girls named ‘Sarah’, why the FLDS members did not admit there were any. IIRC, they told CPS there was NO ONE named SARAH at the YFZ Ranch.
If they also gave a last name, that might explain it.
If they gave all the details when asking, that might explain it.
What do you think of the report that some of the children told CPS that there was that ‘particular’ Sarah living at the compound, and that she ‘disappeared’ a few weeks before the raid?
I didn’t say you were ignorant.
I said the statement was. I don’t consider you ignorant at all.
Perhaps ignorant wasn’t the right word.
From your further remarks, what I would say is that you have a preformed conclusion about the CPS, due to your experiences with them.
Just don’t expect everyone else to share your view.
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