Posted on 12/26/2007 7:40:03 PM PST by CedarDave
It’s official, manufacturers are starting to dump Windows XP support entirely and some new models won’t even have Windows XP drivers or any kind of support available, anywhere. One reader, “Mark” contacted us regarding installing Windows XP on his HP V6610 (AU) laptop which is the V6620 in the US.
“Mark” said when he went to the HP driver/downloads section that very few Windows XP drivers were available for it and he was right, there were almost no useful drivers for the laptop there.
His call to HP support didn’t get very far as “HP is no longer supporting Windows XP on the newer PCs.”
Almost all new computers will ship with a version of Vista be it Basic, Premium, Business or Ultimate and deciding to install Windows XP might be problematic if not all the drivers are available. It’s also doubtful that the drivers will ever be available so you may as well stick with Vista.
Personally, I’ve not had that many problems with Vista, sure I had issues in the past but most of those have been resolved now and I would also have all my hardware working, despite the operating system.
Of course, those of you with Windows Vista and older hardware can attempt to install XP drivers, sometimes they take, sometimes they don’t but its a guarantee that Vista drivers do not work on Windows XP.
If you are not aware, Windows XP OEM will cease production in early 2008 so many manufacturers see no reason to provide Windows XP drivers for their newer hardware which will likely be running on a PC with Vista installed.
My guess is that other manufacturers are going to follow this model sooner rather than later. Models that shipped with Windows XP should be unaffected just don’t expect driver updates.
(Excerpt) Read more at tech.blorge.com ...
Except that if you buy a Mac, you *can* run XP natively full speed, with drivers, and bypass the Vista disaster entirely!
> So all the bad things about Vista (excessive shut down times, file transfer problems, clunky slow operation, the need for excessive amounts of RAM, etc.) go away? Just like that?
Fair questions.
You're still stuck with the overhead of Vista. On the other hand, you're not dealing with it at the "user" level, you're dealing far below the surface.
In a VM, all the normal user file operations take place in the monolithic "virtual disk file" of the VM. So most of the nasty overhead of Vista's file handling is invisible because Vista just thinks you're updating a big single file (the virtual "disk"), and NTFS is pretty good at that.
The RAM question... well, when I run a VM on Vista I allocate as much of the RAM for the VM as I can get away with. I don't try with less than 2GB total, and more is better.
Did you notice that 4GB is now $150? RAM is cheap. Don't sweat RAM. Get lots and don't look back.
So there is no good answer here, except for hardware manufacturers to continue to support drivers for newer machines with XP installed.
(dayglored -- not trying to play devil's advocate here; just trying to understand the problems/solutions to this issue. If I buy a new computer with Vista, wipe the hard drive, install XP and continue to use existing XP-compatible hardware, I should be o.k. It's only the newer gear that's affected if a manufacturer is stupid enough to not provide a driver for the most popular operating system currently in use. Definitely buyer beware.)
That's precisely why I've got Macs for notebooks and desktops these days.
But if the question is how to run XP on Vista-only hardware, a Mac is not the answer.
Full disclosure: even on a Mac, unless you dual-boot or install XP on the bare metal of the Mac, you can't really get to 100% native speed. Fusion is really good and quick, but there's still a couple percent of overhead. Wired ethernet network speed is one area they have some improvement yet to go.
You’re still wrong. If you buy a new machine with Vista, wipe the hard drive, and install XP, you’re still screwed unless the computer maker includes XP drivers for the new computer or the drivers are on the XP disk (good luck with that idea).
New machines are starting to come only with Vista installed.
However, if you buy a new Mac, you can slick the hard drive, install Windows XP, use the APPLE-SUPPLIED DRIVERS FOR XP, and use it as a Windows XP machine and NEVER have to see Mac OS X. (As much of a pity as that would be.)
You're right about peripherals.
But watch out for customized Vista-only notebook video and audio. Vista-only video and audio are becoming commonplace in laptops. You could easily find yourself working with a blind, deaf, and dumb machine, unless XP drivers exist for the highly-customized laptop hardware.
Yes.
Seriously, I’ve got Linux on my desktop at work, and a Mac at home. They both work fine for almost everything you’d want except playing games, and when some webmaster has drunk too much MS cool-aid and makes his site only function properly with the Windows version of Explorer (the Kansas 511 road conditions site, for instance).
There are arguments either way, and while Linux now has some nice software bundles and decent GUI’s, it is still a little geeky. A Mac is probably easier.
Either way there are ways to run your old Windows software. I’ve been outside the MS world for so long I can’t comment on the relative virtues of Wine (for Linux) and Parallels (for Intel-chip Macs).
I’ve been saying that on the Mac, you CAN dual boot or slick/install XP because Apple has made a point of making XP drivers available for all their Intel-based hardware. And they will continue to do so.
Yep, we've done that on a couple of machines (MacBook Pro and Mini).
Runs like a bat outta hell!
In fact, XP runs faster on Mac hardware (native, as above), than on any other comparable "built for Windows" hardware!
And you're right -- our comments have been overlapping. ;-)
Your answer (get Mac hardware, wipe OS X, install XP) is the correct answer for somebody who wants a screaming machine and doesn't have requirements for hardware that only a PC would satisfy.
And as I wrote a minute ago, I've done what you propose, and it rocks. It's just an answer to a different question than I thought we started with. ;-)
Per PC Magazine (yes, the one with I-Hate-Apple John Dvorak), the fastest Windows laptop... is the Apple MacBook Pro.
Aside from parallel printers and serial ports (which even some PCs don’t have any more), what hardware requirement can an XP PC meet that a Mac running XP natively can’t?
Stupid question:
Does the MAC mouse still have only one button? No right click or scroll button? How can a MAC run XP in virtual mode when the user hardware is incompatible?
That’s because they didn’t test the Alienware models.
jas3
You would be wrong. Macs have supported multibutton mice for over a decade now. ALL new Mac desktops ship with a two button mouse (yeah, it doesn’t look like it has two buttons, but it does). The laptops have only one physical button (for a reason that takes entirely too long to explain but it makes sense), but since most people tap the trackpad on laptops to click instead of using the button, it’s no loss. With the laptop trackpad, tap it with one finger to left click, tap it with TWO fingers at the same time to right click.
The Mac (pay attention to the capitalization, please, a MAC is a Media Access Controller aka a network chip) isn’t one-button-limited. I’m posting using Mac OS X right now, and next to my Apple keyboard is the same Logitech 2 button optical scroll mouse I’ve used on Mac OS for years.
I've gone back and forth between a dozen major OSes over the years (35 of 'em... years that is)
> My brother runs his own PC support company, and he really REALLY dislikes Vista. I have been working with him one night a week to learn more about PC’s, and haven’t worked with it much yet myself.
When I got around to dealing with it myself earlier this year, I was reminded of the old John Kennedy quote, "When we got into office, what shocked us was that things really were as bad as we'd been saying they were!"
> At work, our hospital has had to disappoint some employees who purchased new laptops or desktops for home use, only to find they had to buy a copy of Windows XP if they wanted to connect to work via Cisco VPN, since the VIsta version had not been released and validated Enterprise-wide.
Yep, same here. Cisco VPNs and all...
> I have no working opinion about Vista yet, but only know what I have heard from others.
Some folks say they like it. I say, it's eye candy at a huge cost in performance and usability.
> OTOH...I did enjoy slapping together the Photoshop Windows graphic...we can all joke about it.
It's GREAT!
> I get a decent amount of ribbing about being a Mac guy, but my organization does tolerate them and will help when it can. They usually just have them call me...:)
Yeah, we're almost entirely a Windows and Unix shop, but there are a couple of us using Macs as working machines and more on the way. Me, I'm neutral -- I use whatever I find does the job best, and they all have their pluses and minuses.
The Alienware tester was DOA and not returned in time for the test. What good is a “smokingly fast computer” that doesn’t work and can’t be repaired in time for your work?
(Apple laptop service is either immediate in the Apple Stores, or overnight via FedEx and their repair depots.)
1. 2-button mouse on the top surface. (But see next answer to Cedardave, coming up...)
2. Look and feel of PC hardware. Some folks prefer a Fujitsu, or Dell, or whatever.
3. Screen aspect ratio. Macs tend to be wide and not as tall.
4. More choices of hard drive, ethernet chip, other built-in options.
5. Some people (god help 'em) want a PC because they think Mac hardware looks gay.
Since you mentioned my fracturing the Mac acronym, what do UAC and NTFS stand for?
Not stupid at all.
Mac mice now have 2 or even 3-button capability, and scroll capability too. They hide it a little for the sake of not pissing Steve Jobs off too bad, but they have it.
On the notebooks (like my Macbook), the touchpad accepts a 2-finger tap as a right-click. It works really well. No direct equivalent of a scroll button, but you can tell the touchpad to do it for you by dragging your finger over it. (These settings are all user-settable preferences.)
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