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Locked on 12/13/2007 11:50:58 PM PST by Jim Robinson, reason:
Discussion continued here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1939278/posts |
Posted on 12/12/2007 6:27:59 PM PST by jveritas
Dear FRiends
It really pains me to see some of those vicious anti-Mormons attacks we see on Free Republic disguised under the “freedom of speech. Attacking people based on their Mormon faith is really disgusting and it is an insult to this great forum. People who do not like Governor Mitt Romney based on his positions are free to express their opinion as such, but people who attack him because he is a Mormom should be ashamed of themselves and must not be allowed to do so.
I greatly hope that Free Republic members and moderators will get together and help in stopping this anti-Mormon vitriol, this great Free Republic must not be tainted by these shameless acts.
I dunno. I thought they were bronze or brass plates. Maybe they’re gold. My mistake, I’m sure. I don’t really follow along too closely with the arcanum of the world’s religions.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
Ah....
Foundations:
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Galatians 1:7-10
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert (restore?) the gospel of Christ. 8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2 Corinthians 11:14-15
14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
If one believes the Bible is correct, then, by that Standard, Mormonism fails the test.
If, however, you are convinced that the Bible is either in error, been corrupted or mis-interpreted, then you are free to believe whatever you wish.
Be warned though, that this same Bible indicates that no matter how fervently you believe in Something; that does not make it True.
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You said you thought they could be produced.
Where are they?
I’m not and never have been a Mormon, so I really don’t have a dog in the fight as far as defending Mormonism goes. I just don’t care for the idea of people trying to make “guilt by association” arguments, and trying to establish their own religious beliefs as the basis conservative political correctness.
NIV 1 John 2:18-29
18. Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
19. They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20. But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.
21. I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth.
22. Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.
23. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24. See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.
25. And this is what he promised us--even eternal life.
26. I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
27. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
28. And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
29. If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.
NIV 1 John 4:1-3
1. Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3. but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
NIV 2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
NIV Revelation 13:1-18
1. And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
3. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast .4. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"
5. The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months.
6. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
7. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
8. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.
9. He who has an ear, let him hear.
10. If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
11. Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
12. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
13. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
14. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
15. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
17. so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
My point was aimed at the primary. Given Mitt or almost any Democrat, I too would vote for Mitt.
I’d have to hold my nose though, cause he’s a lib.
"5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5
This would include Catholics, Mormons, Presbyterians, Baptists, Calvary Chapel, et al, all due the same respect and consideration in the political topics.
It may be a different story in the religion forum where theology is argued.
That’s not the issue, tactics. The issue is winning. (For me it’s have a true, pro-life conservative win, but that’s a different story.) If Romney gets the nod, I’ll hold him to his pro-life claims.
But, I’ll also expect him to be prepared. He will not be allowed to use the “religious tolerance shield” by the soft-money liberal organizations.
They will attack him. He’d better be prepared.
I don’t post to you, Elsie, and it’s very disturbing the way you have been stalking ME and my posts this past week.
Knock it off.
Maybe if people start resigning it would change. I don’t really think so. I can’t be a part of it any longer, though.
Amen. Beautiful post. You have learned from your experiences in life and your spiritual homecoming. I am also converting to the Catholic faith, and it is nothing against my Christian upbringing in another denomination. It is simply “coming home”...:)
HMMMmmm...
Brigham Young speaks from the grave: (http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/sermons_talks_interviews/jofdvol7p282_291smithholdskeystoheaven.htm)
How many times have I been asked, "Do you believe that such a man as John Wesley will be damned?" I could answer the question either way, for they do not know what it is to be saved or damned. John Wesley is in the spirit-world. He did not receive the ordinances of the everlasting Gospel in the flesh, and consequently is not prepared to hold the keys of the kingdom and be a minister of the great work of God in the last dispensation, but is dependent upon others to attain a celestial glory. Has he gone to hell? No. When the spirit leaves the body, it goes into the spirit-world, where the spirits of men are classified according to their own wills or pleasure, as men are here, only they are in a more pure and refined state of existence. Do you suppose that John Wesley is lifting up his eyes in hell, being in torment? No; he is talking to those who heard and would not believe him when he was on the earth. He may be asking them whether they do not now see the justice of a reformation from the Church of England mode of religion—whether they do not now see that that Church had gone astray from the true religion, and that he was right. Yes; and they, no doubt, see it as John Wesley does, and are willing to worship God according to the best knowledge they have. As death left him, so judgment will find him, trying to worship God in the best manner he was acquainted with. John Wesley and his true followers will receive a glory far surpassing what they ever thought or dreamed of while under the influence of their greatest inspirations, and they will be saved. Are they also damned? Yes, because they have not attained the victory over the enemy of all righteousness. It is the holy Priesthood of God that gives man the victory in this world, and he begins to reign over the power of the enemy here. The keys of the kingdom of the Son of God outreach and circumscribe the power of the Enemy.
Much has been said about the power of the Latter-day Saints. Is it the people called Latter-day Saints that have this power, or is it the Priesthood? It is the Priesthood; and if they live according to that Priesthood, they can commence their work here and gain many victories,
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and be prepared to receive glory, immortality, and eternal life, that when they go into the spirit-world, their work will far surpass that of any other man or being that has not been blessed with the keys of the Priesthood here.
Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them—something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them—namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true.
I will now tell you something that ought to comfort every man and woman on the face of the earth. Joseph Smith, junior, will again be on this earth dictating plans and calling forth his brethren to be baptized for the very characters who wish this was not so, in order to bring them into a kingdom to enjoy, perhaps, the presence of angels or the spirits of good men, if they cannot endure the presence of the Father and the Son; and he will never cease his operations, under the directions of the Son of God, until the last ones of the children of men are saved that can be, from Adam till now.
Should not this thought comfort all people? They will, by-and-by, be a thousand times more thankful for such a man as Joseph Smith, junior, than it is possible for them to be for any earthly good whatever. It is his mission to see that all the children of men in this last dispensation are saved, that can be, through the redemption. You will be thankful, every one of you, that Joseph Smith, junior, was ordained to this great calling before the worlds were. I told you that the doctrine of election and reprobation is a true doctrine. It was decreed. in the counsels of eternity, long before the foundations of the earth were laid, that he should be the man, in the last dispensation of this world, to bring forth the word of God to the people, and receive the fulness of the keys and power of the Priesthood of the Son of God. The Lord had his eye upon him, and upon his father, and upon his father's father, and upon their progenitors clear back to Abraham, and from Abraham to the flood, from the flood to Enoch, and, from Enoch to Adam. He has watched that family and that blood as it has circulated from its fountain to the
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birth of that man. He was foreordained in eternity to preside over this last dispensation, as much so as Pharaoh was foreordained to be a wicked man, or as was Jesus to be the Saviour of the world because he was the oldest son in the family.
(You may IGNORE the above; because it is NOT 'official LDS organizational Scripture; but mere JD ramblings.)
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Delphi,
I posed the question — a rhetorical one from my experience with Mormons — in order to give someone (in this case you) an opportunity to respond to the claims set out in the video.
With few exceptions, MY personal experience with LDS folk is that they are, like most of the rest of us, failed sinners seeking to lead decent lives here and salvation in the hereafter.
I have also found LDS people to be some of the strongest PATRIOTS and lovers of America and what she USED TO stand for and may, by God’s grace and some help from her friends, stand for again.
Thanks for picking up that particular gauntlet — and MERRY CHRISTMAS!
But, in another thread Utah Girl did not know why.
This site is going in a disturbing direction.
I thought there wuz jus' 13 of them Articles o' Faith we got!
--MormonDude(At least I can count!)
Research??
WHAT 'research'??
The Living Prophet® SAID so; so that's that!
--MormonDude(It's GOOD not to have to think to much!)
*****
I concur.... mostly...
You cannot relegate every discussion of faith and religious matters to a single forum -- otherwise you would have to strictly categorize and enforce "placement" of each and every discussion on the FR Forum....
Let's all talk about the merits of this house....
BUT YOU MUST...
Keep all the discussions of the foundations stashed away in the corner of the basement
Insofar as a candidate's faith and convictions inform the electorate about their worldview, personal integrity, views of morality, fairness, maintaining domestic tranquility...etc...
Those discussions would/should and will remain fair game in General/News or Politics/Elections...
There is a lot of immaturity on both sides here...
Open honest civil discussions are being framed as attacks...
On the other hand some contributors are falling into repetitive dogma and noisy diatribe ---
Let's all grow up a little, folks...
Agree...disagree... or agree to disagree
But we can keep it civil and respectful in all matters...
Just my humble opine...
I want a LIMIT on YOU!
(Now...
...how does that make YOU feel?)
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