Posted on 11/26/2007 9:14:50 PM PST by damondonion
I'm looking at something here which would cause me a certain amount of consternation, to say the least, if I were a person involved in procuring firearms for any sort of military organization:
That is Beretta's ultimate hunting shotgun, called the Xtrema. As far as I can tell, it appears to be a solid ton more sophisticated than any millitary firearm I'm aware of.
For starters, it's gas operated and very fast compared to semiauto shotguns of 30 years ago; you can't get ahead of it trying to pull the trigger fast. It totally solves the basic problem which the M16 attempted to solve without the side effects inherent in the M16. The gas piston is very light and only moves an inch and a half or two inches and THROWS the bolt carrier back rather than pushing it. In other words, not enough moving weight to affect accuracy.
Powder residue doesn't get back to the bolt or bolt carrier and the thing is advertised as self-cleaning and it's close to that. The piston actually has a ring like engine pistons and the ring inserts easily into the cylinder it moves in without tools.
The system includes a heavy spring bleedoff valve and adjusts automatically for loads i.e. you can shoot geese with it one day and quail or skeets the next without changing anything other than the ammo you're using. I don't know of any military weapon which can do that.
It's hardened against salt spray and water of any sort so that you can sit there shooting ducks off the Atlantic shore all day long and it doesn't hurt it.
They appear to be selling this item off at cost or not much more than that on gunbroker and auctionarms. My own guess would be that large Beretta dealers make their money on skeet/traps guns costing 5K - 30K and have to take a certain number of the less expensive guns including the Xtrema with the others, and then sell the cheaper guns off on auctions.
Yes, please!
Mark
Like I say if I were in charge of any sort of a military procurement thing the idea of civilian firearms getting this far ahead would have to bother me. Probably should have called it Ultimate HUNTING Shotgun, Beretta almost certainly views this as a low end gun.
Ever look at a Saiga-12? Its a man’s semi-auto 12-gauge shotgun. Check them out at Tromix.com and click on Saiga shotguns.
I’m a trombone player myself. I favor the R-870, W-12, I-37 or even Benellis Nova.
Was it Beretta or Benelli [owned by Beretta] that got the contract for the new U.S military shotgun?
Benelli M4, also known as M1014. You can check it out at the link.
http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/m4.tpl
What it really sounds like is having your cake and eating it. In other words, the idea of the M16 was to obtian accuracy by eliminating the weight and motion of the gas piston and have gas push directly on the bolt carrier; that however turns cleaning into a grimy mess and limits the number of shots you could take prior to cleaning. This thing seems to achieve the main goal of the M16 without the side effects.
It looks nice and all..
But if this is the gun I’m thinking of, though, the reason it’s cheap is because the “automatic load adjusting” feature.... doesn’t.
The Saiga-12 feeds off a detachable magazine, is built off an AK action, and has a quick adjust gas system - which is a two position selector, shot or slugs. And it really doesn’t matter because the “shot” position works fine with everything I’ve thrown at it.
Yes but will it be still shooting 93 years from now? My 1914 (FN) Browning A-5 keeps chugging along.
And because of the way Beretta made the gas system, you can forget about any detachable magazine rigs for it, except for convoluted Knoxx Sidewinder-types. Maybe.
Thanks, I'll stick with this type for a "military shotgun":
Note: None of these are pictures of me or mine. :)
Here's my old girl.
I have both the Sweet 16 and the Light 12. Antique humpbacks are still a joy to shoot.
You got that right. Those are real keepers you have there.
My father's boss gave it to him upon the occasion of my sister's birth in 1956.
Browning "Sweet 16".
The middle 50’s Sweets are the most desirable. Best looking, best shooting, best quality. Mine is a ‘55, unfortunately I believe the reciever has been re-blued.
When I sat “cheap” for a Beretta shotgun I mean around a thousand to eleven hundred dollars. The Xtrema is further above any sort of Saiga shotgun than a Maserati Bora is above a mule. The Saiga is a piece of ****.
I wouldn’t be too sure about that. Saigas are starting to catch on in skeet circles, and they’re shooting rings around a lot of so-called “superior” weapons.
Oh, by the way, having had a Bora in the family? I’d rather have the mule. It’d be more reliable and need less care.
Besides, you were the one comparing it to military weapons. In a military/combat setting, the Beretta is a joke.
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