Spear-wielding chimps snack on skewered bushbabies [ chimps suck ]

New Scientist ^ | February 22, 2007 | Rowan Hooper

[SunkenCiv]

a population of savannah chimps (Pan troglodytes verus) living in the Fongoli area of south-east Senegal have been seen making spears from strong sticks that they sharpen with their teeth. The average spear length is 63 centimetres (25 inches)... And the method of procuring food with these tools is not simply extractive, as it is when harvesting insects. It is far more aggressive. They use the spears to hunt one of the cutest primates in Africa: bushbabies (Galago senegalensis). Bushbabies are nocturnal and curl up in hollows in trees during the day... Chimps were observed thrusting their spears into hollow trunks and branches with enough force to injure anything inside the holes, Pruetz's research team says. The chimps used a "power grip" and made multiple downward stabs – much the same way as a human might wield a dagger. Ten different chimps in the population were observed to perform this behaviour in 22 bouts. In one case the researchers saw a chimp remove a dead bushbaby and eat it.

[Fred Nerks]

Here's the feminist twist:


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21277955-2703,00.html

Women may have invented weapons
Mark Henderson
February 24, 2007

THE survival techniques of West African chimpanzees have revealed that the first human weapons may have been developed by women.
The use of spears and axes to hunt and kill is commonly thought to have been pioneered among humanity's ancestors by males, but research has indicated weapons may have been a female invention that compensated for their lesser size and strength.
Anthropologists' observations of chimpanzees in Senegal have revealed they gnaw the ends of sticks to create rudimentary spears, which they use to hunt bushbabies, a small primate.

[SunkenCiv]

That is a good point.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

There are a lot of animals that are dangerous too but since they are creatures of chemistry and can't help what they do and are therefore not responsible for their actions, we do not imprison them for murdering other creatures.

We imprison human beings for crimes because human beings are not creatures of chemistry and are fully capable of choosing not to kill. There is not only a basic issue of public safety, but a basic issue of morality associated with humans- it is morally wrong to kill other people. The morality question is never associated with animals because it is a fact that they do not have the human capacity of discerning right from wrong and are not held responsible for immoral acts that they commit.

[amchugh]

This is getting philosophical, and OT, but aren't we creatures of chemistry? Can paranoid schizophrenics in the grip of delusion choose not to kill? Does Toxoplasma Gondii alter human behaviour? Are most shaken baby deaths related to Methamphetamine intake? I have a different view of volition than most people. I think that we believe we have more free will than we actually do (I'm not predeterminist though). I think that for society to function, we have to act on the belief in free will, even when it is clear that the person was not able to make a rational decision at the time of their actions (drunk drivers, schizos off medication, retarded or child killers).

Also, I'm not sure that animals have no grasp whatsoever of moral choices and repercusions of decisions. I've seen disobedient dogs look sheepish as they do something they know they aren't supposed to, and for smarter animals moral reasoning may be possible. Certainly, animals can be heroic or altruistic, like the pig who went into the street and lay down in front of a car to summon help when its owner had a heart attack. If they can understand "good" at a rudimentary level, is "evil" so far beyond them?

[rmlew]

1. Did the Savannah Chimps come up with the behavior, or are their Africans doing similar activities? Apes ape behavior!
2. When we find another animal that can use fire, I'll take notice.
3. These ladies may want to devlop into lucy, but they are 4 million years late.

[Lurker]

"“Back to the drawing board again in terms of trying to define how humans are special,” says Pruetz

Chimps don't have Chinese take out you moron.

L

[Towed_Jumper]

Someone needs to post that pic of the Chimp holding a Glock. Forget the "spears"...monkey's and tactical tupperware is the future!

[SunkenCiv]

:') So far...

Fates that really "scare the monkeys" of Guangzhou, China
Animal People
September 2003

"Some restaurants in Ping Shang City, Guangxi Province, near the border between China and Vietnam, promote 'Eating Monkey Brain Alive' to attract customers," asserted The Apple Daily tabloid of Hong Kong on September 20, 2001. "Those restaurants sell a monkey for HK$380," the anonymous purported eyewitness account said. "There were 2-3 monkeys in a cage. Whilst the customers were picking their monkey, the others in the cage were trying to push one of them out in order to keep themselves alive. "The cook will force-feed the monkey with rice wine until it is drunk. Then he will tie the monkey's limbs together, chop the skull off, and put the whole monkey in a large bowl to serve. Customers then scoop out the raw monkey brain with spoons and the rest of the body will be cooked." ...The International Fund for Animal Welfare found in a March 1998 survey of 874 residents of Beijing and 864 residents of Shanghai that 88.3% considered eating a live monkey's brains to be unacceptably cruel. Only 35%, however, seemed to believe that notifying public officials would bring an effective response.

as opposed to 'acceptably cruel'? ;')

[Smokin' Joe]

When chimps can order pizza, then I'll be impressed.

Then GEICO Commercials...

[aNYCguy]

I wouldn't put a human in jail for killing a squirrel either. Maybe this isn't the killer argument you were looking for?

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Well, it could be philosophical, but it is also religous.

By equating humans and animals, you neatly eliminate what God has said about the two creations, and you eliminate that God never created animals to have a "free will" like that of humans, nor did God create animals with a innate knowledge of Himself, nor did God ever tell us that animals were to be held responsible for thier actions, nor was Jesus crucified for animals. That last fact tells us all we need to know about this aspect of the creation, that animals and humans are two completely different creations with different roles on this earth and, unfortunately for some, animals are a lower life form than humans. In fact, God gave man dominion over the animals, which sends Gaia worshipers into spasms of rage, but that is just how God set up His creation. And there has been no shortage of energy expended to try to thwart that reality by those who don't like reality the way it is and try to force us all into some parallel universe where animals are just little humans who can't talk and if we just give them some rights, like we have, one of them is sure to find a way to world peace.

And also unfortunately, the fact that we exist in a fallen, sin-sick world means that there are times when there will be diseases, some of which affect the human mind. That does not negate the fact that we were created with a conscience, with a responsibilty to behave in a moral manner, and a choice to not behave in a moral manner, depending on if we are going to capitulate to our fallen natures in any given moment in time or not. Even if you reject the idea that God created all of this, there is no independent scientific evidence that animals are equal to humans in every way that, in reality, separates us from animals.

And until I see the animals-are-equal-to-humans-and-deserve-the-same-rights crowd imposing on animals the same responsibilities that we have, and the same penalities for crimes, and the same expectations of behavior, I will have to continue to look at God's creation, and the way He set everything up, and will have to continue to hold the Gaia religious fanatics in complete contempt for their denial of reality.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Killer argument? What are you talking about?

If we put people in jail for killing other people, and animals are equal to humans, why don't we put animals in jail for killing other animals?

Good grief. It's not rocket science.

[amchugh]

I wish I believed in God, but unfortunately I dont.

Existence of God aside (respectfully), I think it is pretty clear to all but the most idiotic that animals and humans are different. At the very least in degree, but surely in kind as well.

I take it you disagree with legal concepts such as diminished capacity?