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Explaining the Shooting of Governor John Connally
Shown on FreeRepublic for the first time. | October 25, 2006 | Bill Charleston

Posted on 10/25/2006 7:54:41 AM PDT by BILL_C

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To: BILL_C; Admin Moderator

If you can't answer a simple question, you can't answer anything about the assassination. Nothing. You're a waste of bandwidth.
Too bad FR has to put up with crackpots like you ever November. This thread should have been locked at the very start.


381 posted on 11/19/2006 10:34:04 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Simpletons with limited capacity like you should be few and far between and take up far less for others with serious mature ideas.


382 posted on 11/19/2006 10:41:57 AM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: smoketree; Admin Moderator

Accusing our government in the killing of an American president? Accusing a womam like Lady Bird Johnson?

Go back to DU.


383 posted on 11/19/2006 10:52:32 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

There you go again making things up to disguise your inability to comprehend anything complex.
I NEVER made any of the implications you just asserted.
I think you need to grow up just a little.


384 posted on 11/19/2006 10:54:51 AM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Comeon smartalec show me where I said the government or Lady Bird Johnson did it?
Take your time. Come on you can do it.
Take your time.


385 posted on 11/19/2006 11:07:50 AM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: smoketree

OK, expert, explain how this shooting incident happened from A to Z. Cubans? Mafia? the Government? Crusty the Clown. Who, what, where they were and how the bullets created the wounds. Let's hear it. The exact locations. Who fired the number of shots. What damage the shots created. I need the laughs.


386 posted on 11/19/2006 11:13:18 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Because I have questions doesn't mean Iknow everything.
Your strawman style of arguing is infantile.
If everything doesn't go your way then everyone else is wrong.
Sounds like preschool style reasoning.


387 posted on 11/19/2006 11:16:18 AM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Comeon shooter tell everyone where I said Lady Bird Johnson killed Kennedy. Or where I said the government did it.
Comeon shooter. You can do it.
Just like everything else you come up with vanishes in a gentle breeze.


388 posted on 11/19/2006 11:38:05 AM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Comeon shooter you made an accusation now back it up.


389 posted on 11/19/2006 12:01:39 PM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: smoketree

That sentence had a question mark on it.


390 posted on 11/19/2006 12:11:31 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Is that your answer????


391 posted on 11/19/2006 12:12:48 PM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Which sentence?

Even so does that mean you can't answer?


392 posted on 11/19/2006 12:14:26 PM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: smoketree

So shooter .25 you can't back up what you said.
Just proves that you make things up in an attempt to make your point.
Which means your point has no weight.


393 posted on 11/19/2006 12:35:26 PM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: smoketree

I know your tactic.
When you are found out you just disappear for a while and hope everyone forgets the stupid things you say.
Then you come back and try it again.
Like a five year old hoping the adults forget.


394 posted on 11/19/2006 1:05:36 PM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: smoketree

this repy goes to shooter .25 not me. Hit the wrong button.


395 posted on 11/19/2006 1:07:30 PM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: smoketree
smoketree wrote:

Because I have questions doesn't mean I know everything.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I've been trying to get that same point across to FR's 'Report defenders' for years now.

None of them have ever been able to explain the discrepancy between the Zapruder film time-line [posted below at #319] and the fact that 3 shots from Oswalds rifle simply do not, and can not be made to correlate:



Explaining the Shooting of Governor John Connally
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1725590/posts?q=1&&page=319


True to form, none of the biggest 'defenders' can or will even try to dispute the above facts. -- 'Case closed', baloney...
396 posted on 11/19/2006 1:13:03 PM PST by tpaine
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To: BILL_C; Shooter 2.5
We have both Nellie and John Connally say John was shot AFTER the first shot hit JFK.

False. John Connally never said he was shot AFTER the first shot hit JFK. He specifically said he did not see JFK after the first shot. Please show the testimony where you think John Connally said that he was shot after the first shot hit JFK or retract your statement.

In fact, Governor Connally's and Mrs. Connally's testimony blows your theory out of the water. It is amazing how you misrepresent their testimony to make it appear their testimony supports your theory. They both unequivocally state that the Governor was shot in the back before JFK was shot in the head. You cannot twist or misinterpret their testimony in any way, shape, or form to supporrt your theory unless you believe they were providing false testimony. Do you believe Governor and Mrs. Connally lied when they testified?

From Governor Connally's testimony to the Warren Commission:

Mr. SPECTER. As the automobile turned left onto Elm from Houston, what did occur there, Governor?

Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street. We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt. So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.

Mr. SPECTER. What is the best estimate that you have as to the time span between the sound of the first shot and the feeling of someone hitting you in the back which you just described?

Governor CONNALLY. A very, very brief span of time. Again my trend of thought just happened to be, I suppose along this line, I immediately thought that this--that I had been shot. I knew it when I just looked down and I was covered with blood, and the thought immediately passed through my mind that there were either two or three people involved or more in this or someone was shooting with an automatic rifle. These were just thoughts that went through my mind because of the rapidity of these two, of the first shot plus the blow that I took, and I knew I had been hit, and I immediately assumed, because of the amount of blood, and in fact, that it had obviously passed through my chest. that I had probably been fatally hit. So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him. I heard the shot hit something, and I assumed again--it never entered my mind that it ever hit anybody but the President. I heard it hit. It was a very loud noise, just that audible, very clear. Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail, and again I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else. I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----

Mr. SPECTER. Nellie is Mrs. Connally?

Governor CONNALLY. Mrs. Connally. When she pulled me over into her lap, she could tell I was still breathing and moving, and she said, "Don't worry, Be quiet. You are going to be all right." She Just kept telling me I was going to be all right. After the third shot, and I heard Roy Kellerman tell the driver, "Bill, get out of line." And then I saw him move, and I assumed he was moving a button or something on the panel of the automobile, and he said, "Get us to a hospital quick." I assumed he was saying this to the patrolman, the motorcycle police who were leading us. At about that time, we began to pull out of the cavalcade, out of the line, and I lost consciousness and didn't regain consciousness until we got to the hospital.

...snip...

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by President Kennedy after the shooting?

Governor CONNALLY. No; I did not see him.

Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe any reaction by Mrs. Kennedy after the shooting?

Governor CONNALLY. I did not see her. This almost sounds incredible, I am sure, since we were in the car with them. But again I will repeat very briefly when what I believe to be the shot first occurred, I turned to my right, which was away from both of them, of course, and looked out and could see neither, and then as I was turning to look into the back seat where I would have seen both of them, I was hit, so I never completed the turn at all, and I never saw either one of them after the firing started, and, of course, as I have testified, then Mrs. Connally pulled me over into her lap and I was facing forward with my head slightly turned up to where I could see the driver and Roy Kellerman on his right, but I could not see into the back seat, so I didn't see either one of them.

Mr. SPECTER. When you turned to your right. Governor Connally, immediately after you heard the first shot. what did you see on that occasion?

Governor CONNALLY. Nothing of any significance except just people out on the grass slope. I didn't see anything that was out of the ordinary, just saw men, women, and children.

...snip...

Mr. SPECTER. Did you experience any sensation of being struck any place other than that which you have described on your chest?

Governor CONNALLY. No.

...snip...

Mr. SPECTER. In your view, which bullet caused the injury to your chest, Governor Connally?

Governor CONNALLY. The second one.

Mr. SPECTER. And what is your reason for that conclusion, sir?

Governor CONNALLY. Well, in my judgment, it just couldn't conceivably have been the first one because I heard the sound of the shot, In the first place, don't know anything about the velocity of this particular bullet, but any rifle has a velocity that exceeds the speed of sound, and when I heard the sound of that first shot, that bullet had already reached where I was, or it had reached that far, and after I heard that shot, I had the time to turn to my right, and start to turn to my left before I felt anything. It is not conceivable to me that I could have been hit by the first bullet, and then I felt the blow from something which was obviously a bullet, which I assumed was a bullet, and I never heard the second shot, didn't hear it. I didn't hear but two shots. I think I heard the first shot and the third shot.

Mr. SPECTER. Do you have any idea as to why you did not hear the second shot?

Governor CONNALLY. Well, first, again I assume the bullet was traveling faster than the sound. I was hit by the bullet prior to the time the sound reached me, and I was in either a state of shock or the impact was such that the sound didn't even register on me, but I was never conscious of hearing the second shot at all. Obviously, at least the major wound that I took in the shoulder through the chest couldn't have been anything but the second shot. Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

From Mrs. Connally's testimony to the Warren Commission:

Mrs. Connally: In fact the receptions had been. so good every place that I had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before. I could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you." Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right. I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.

Mr. Specter: And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands crossing over gripping your own neck?

Mrs. Connally: Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down. Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." I never again----

Mr. Dulles: To the right was into your arms more or less?

Mrs. Connally: No, he turned away from me. I was pretending that I was him. I never again looked in the back seat of the car after my husband was shot. My concern was for him, and I remember that he turned to the right and then just slumped down into the seat, so that I reached over to pull him toward me. X was trying to get him down and me down. The jump seats were not very roomy, so that there were reports that he slid into the seat of the car, which he did not; that he fell over into my lap, which he did not. I just pulled him over into my arms because it would have been impossible to get us really both down with me sitting and me holding him. So that I looked out, I mean as he was in my arms, I put my head down over his head so that his head and my head were right together, and all I could see, too, were the people flashing by. I didn't look back any more. The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us. I thought John had been killed, and then there was some imperceptible movement, just some little something that let me know that there was still some life, and that is when I started saying to him, "It's all right. Be still." Now, I did hear the Secret Service man say, "Pull out of the motorcade. Take us to the nearest hospital," and then we took out very rapidly to the hospital. Just before we got to Parkland, we made a right-hand turn, he must have been going very fast, because as he turned the weight of my husband's body almost toppled us both.

If you are going to ignore witness statements, you have to do better than to simply call them unreliable.

Do you believe Governor and Mrs. Connally lied when they testified?

Do you believe that the photos below are fake?


397 posted on 11/20/2006 3:17:51 PM PST by Tares
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To: Tares

Perhaps you should read what you just posted. It clearly says Connally was shot after the first shot. Both Connally's say John was shot AFTER the first shot. John says he heard the first then a pause then he gets hit. He clearly states there was too much time between the first shot and when he got hit for it to be the same shot. Because he didn't hear the second shot doesn't mean it didn't happen.


398 posted on 11/20/2006 5:50:28 PM PST by smoketree (the insanity, the lunacy these days)
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To: Shooter 2.5; Admin Moderator; smoketree; mtbopfuyn; Churchillspirit; archy; editor-surveyor; ...
If you can't answer a simple question, you can't answer anything about the assassination. Nothing. You're a waste of bandwidth. Too bad FR has to put up with crackpots like you ever November. This thread should have been locked at the very start.

REPLY

INTERESTING!

If you can't answer a simple question, you can't answer anything about the assassination.

No, you apparently misunderstood. I told you I'm NOT going to answer that question yet, how the first 3 shots "happened." That is EXACTLY how the Warren Commission convinced some pretty erudite people that the single bullet theory is credible. These people bought some pretty silly, rediculous theories (I want to use the word comical but I'll be kind).

The argument goes like this, IF THE SINGLE BULLET THEORY IS NOT TRUE, then you have to have multiple shooters and multiple shots. As I've stated previously, "they" got that wrong too. There were only five shots, the police channel audio analysis clearly showed that :-) . And even if you ignore that audio, then there is plenty to show that Connally was shot 0.7 seconds AFTER President Kennedy's fatal head shot.

Now, many people are willing to conceed their thinking and logic to others, we have Television to thank for that, but NOT all of us. Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor?

Please explain to me WHY we should believe an investigation that simply fails to explain what many people saw? We simply have an investigation where we have DOZENS of people wrong about what they saw and what they heard OR we have an investigation which was fradulant because the Warren Commission was used by the GUILTY MEN (LBJ and HOOVER) to plant the biggest lie in history right on the front page.

We have on one hand an investigation "theory" that supports a lone gunman firing three shots.

On the other side of the equation we have a "theory" that simply says that the final two shots of a "flurry of shots" were spaced 0.7 seconds apart. The first one, fired from somewhere else than the Texas School Book depository, hit President Kennedy in the head at Zapruder Frame number 313. The second shot of the second group hit Governor Connally in the back at Zapruder Frame 325, 0.7 seconds AFTER Zapruder Frame 313.

NOW, do you believe in just wild coincidences like this, that a witness would describe bang-bang for the last two shots? OR as I showed in the still frames in my post that you can see Connally's head snap downward at Z=325, and you find the same information in an analysis of the Dallas Police radio recording? OR do/can you consider a SIMPLE explanation?

The SIMPLE explanation is that Connally was shot in the back at Z=325, 0.7 seconds AFTER President Kennedy's fatal head shot.

You're a waste of bandwidth. Too bad FR has to put up with crackpots like you ever November.

Let's see, FREEREPUBLIC is supposed to be a place where we can let the truth surface with an open forum about ideas and theories, but you advocate censorship that parallels some of the great dictatorships in world history :-)

crackpots like:

Earlier, you called me some other explicatives deleted, thanks for using another one. Are you trying to hurt my feelings?

You see, I've seen some pretty intelligent, serious people buy into this lie, the single bullet theory, and you're just another one. For the FIRST TIME, I am putting what you'd like to call a theory as an alternative idea to the magic bullet theory.

John Connally being shot at Z=325, 0.7 seconds AFTER President Kennedy's fatal head shot, explains MANY of the mysteries shown in clips on the History Channel, the Discovery Channel, the Court TV channel...... For what's approaching one-half century, we've heard BS. The majority of Americans don't believe the Warren Commission, hell, they don't believe much of anything, not even the truth.

You advocate banning this topic from FreeRepublic.com. If I'm right, and I am, this is the most significant topic EVER broken on FREEREPUBLIC, it makes the Dan Rather favorite son story look insignificant by comparison. This is NOT a post that is a shallow "he said, no they didn't" it is instead a post which postulates a simple explanation to one of the biggest "mysteries" in history (hint, it's NOT a mystery, it's a LIE).

IF Connally was hit in the back at Z=325, 0.7 seconds AFTER the fatal head shot to JFK, then you can only conclude that powerful people contolled the investigation. Those people were led by Vice President Johnson and FBI Director FOR LIFE J. EDGAR HOOVER.

It's a simple, easy story to grasp. And there are a lot more facts to support LJB/Hoover, I just introduce the real killers here as I think to UNDERSTAND what happened, you have to consider the power it took to corrupt an investigation of this magnitude. Only the President can pull off someting like this, no one else on Earth has the power.

399 posted on 11/20/2006 10:42:24 PM PST by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of history are bound to repeat them!)
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To: smoketree; Tares
You Posted:

Governor CONNALLY. We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street. We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt. So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn. I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in the back.

Look at the clip from the History Channel, Men Who Killed Kennedy as John Connally describes the shot to his back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3-lZNR_yAc

Connally does say he heard JFK shot AFTER the shot to his back, what he says is not consistent, true, but consider that the shots were 0.7 seconds apart and that he was trying to make what he remembered fit into a scenario where the interrogators were fixated on three shots and only three shots. BANG-BANG was NOT possible......

He clearly says that the force of the bullet bent him over.... You never see that until AFTER the fatal shot to JFK's head. You never see Connally covered in blood during his turn from Z=230 all the way to Z=324, Connally starts ducking forward at Z=319 which is his reaction to the shot at Z=313. Yes, he got the order wrong about the Z=313 shot and the Z=325 shot, but he did describe being driven forward. Look at the clip of Connally being driven forward just as he described, it starts at Z=325.

When I presented this to Dr. Wecht, I actually thought at that time that John Connally was shot in the back at Z=319 which is the time that Connally starts to move forward, and I couldn't explain the difference between a Z=319 shot and the Z=325 shot as shown by the Accoustical Analysis.

IT's simple now, Connally was ducking just as the two Secret Service men are seen ducking in the front seat of the limo. As Connally is ducking forward, he is hit in the back which is the exact time we see his head collapse downward. I showed a few frames of Connally before and after Z=325 in the original post which showed his head snap downward. This is the first time this head snap downward has ever been identified to my knowledge. Dr. Wecht, for instance, had never seen this either.

Virtually everyone had assumed the "action" was over by Z=313.

And this ducking forward by the three men in front is not due to the braking of the car, IF you look at Jackie Kennedy, she does not move forward during that brief interval.

400 posted on 11/20/2006 11:28:41 PM PST by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of history are bound to repeat them!)
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