The Science Fiction book thread

www.Freerepublic.com | 8-19-06 | "Hack"

[Hacksaw]

There have been several science fiction threads floating around in the near past - and I thought it would be good to hash out the books.

Here are my thoughts:

Almost anything by Larry Niven is worth it - especially stuff from the Known Space series. Jerry Pournelle is also good, but under-rated. His Janissaries books were a good read, along with Starswarm.

RAH - most of his books are very enjoyable. His later stuff (which some consider his classics) I didn't like at all, especially that one about a guy getting his brain transplanted in a womans body. I didn't make it 1/3 of the way through before I gave up.

Ben Bova - readable. Not great, but still a page turner.

Star Trek books - unfortuneately, many of these are BORING. Notable exceptions are those written by by Diane Duane or Michael Jan Friedman. JM Dillard also seems good.

Asimov - almost always worth it.

Orson Scott Card - most of the time worth it. The Enders Game series was very good.

Saberhagen - good read. His berserker concept has also been picked up by other authors.

Kim Stanley Robinson - bleech. I kept wishing the characters in his books would get killed. Unfortuneately they were the heroes. Picture a bunch of disciples of Hugo Chavez colonizing Mars and you get the picture.

AC Clarke - very entertaining. Safe bets.

Other thoughts?

[Junior]

I've always been fond of military SF: Drake, Flynt, Heinlein, Pournelle, Ringo, Weber...

[Darkwolf377]

Apology accepted.

Not an apology, a clarification of your mischaracterization. Your behavior on this thread is, frankly, weird.

But I did not question his interest in sex... just your implication that he placed homosexual messages in ST.

I'm not saying he placed them there intentionally--I have no way of knowing. But they're there.

[backhoe]

"Dang, I've been thinking about pulling my old copies of E.E. "Doc" Smith's "Lensman" books out of storage and re-reading them."

Good Lord- I did a post about Doc years ago:

E.E. "Doc" Smith
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b706c947999.htm

[Darkwolf377]

If you can't argue with facts, attack the opponent. I thought we were having a discussion. I refuted your argument. I did not attack you.

Oh, please, you're ridiculous--you started the personal attacks right off, with the "asinine" comments and such. Please, it's embarassing watching you shuck and jive and not accept what you're doing in "internet speak". Your comments are there for anyone to see.

I can completely demolish your silly position--I need only point to the book. You don't WANT to see your hero having written those scenes, which is why I'm not wasting my time.

And yet you've posted yet ANOTHER long, time-consuming thread, instead of just saying "I win, you lose" and leaving the field. It doesn't bother me in the slightest if you believe you've "won" the discussion, so please, claim you have done so and stop with the arm-long, truly bizarre, and frightened posts.

I certainly didn't make any comments about your sexuality, but you certainly seem determined to force folks to wonder about your contact with reality.

The material is plain as day. You seem to think that everything in a novel needs little labels on it telling you what each element REALLY means. You remind me of those folks who are shocked to learn the hero isn't white. The material is right there--your attempts to deny this are really peculiar--I mentioned women's desire, and you countered there are no women CHARACTERS--a totally meaningless distraction.

You do know how to ramble on. Apparently, though, you don't know how to read for content. So instead of another epic babble-on, just say you "won" and leave it at that. Because you're starting to make me wonder...

[Toadman]

ping for later reference.

Keith Laumer and the Bolo series of books are very entertaining.

[marc costanzo]

On my own thread that I initiated, my complaints were about Science Fiction Entertainment ~ Movies, TV, Comic Books

This medium is anti-American, and the material is made in Canada .

Ray Bradbury has also taken notice of Sci-Fi's dark trends -
he calls his writings FANTASY !

[Darkwolf377]

Ray Bradbury has also taken notice of Sci-Fi's dark trends - he calls his writings FANTASY

Actually, he's done that for ages, because he doesn't write SF, he writes fantasy. Even his stuff taking place in space is essentially fantasy using a futuristic background that he just invents without a lot of technical jargon or consideration of science.

He's coming out with a sequel to Dandelion Wine next month--can't wait.

[Swordmaker]

I'm not saying he placed them there intentionally--I have no way of knowing. But they're there.

I can completely demolish your silly position--I need only point to the book.

You don't WANT to see your hero having written those scenes, which is why I'm not wasting my time.

The scenes are not as you have described them.

If they are, then prove it. Point to the book. All you have to do is provide the evidence that "they're there" as you have claimed.

Not an apology, a clarification of your mischaracterization. Your behavior on this thread is, frankly, weird.

You can stop the inuendo. It is just another form of argumentum ad hominem Your first response to me when I disagreed with your characterization of ST was dismissive and replete with inuendo... at least it appears to contain inuendo that my position was somehow based on fear. That is ad hominem. You have continually attacked me rather than address the subject.

. . . you started the personal attacks right off, with the "asinine" comments and such.

I did not say "you were asinine" but rather that the comments were... and gave a reason. That is not a personal attack. There is a difference. If you read into it an insult to you, I retract it. My apologies.

I mentioned women's desire, and you countered there are no women CHARACTERS--a totally meaningless distraction.

You again misstate what I said. As you said, "Your comments are there for anyone to see." As are your personal attacks and hints about my sanity.

[marc costanzo]

Science Fiction movies and TV,
have tended to exude many leftwing messages(evil corporations, evil white males, UFO cover-ups) .

Sci-fi Entertainment is a great medium,
for those who want to spout off their hatred for America ! :

Stephen King

William Gibson

Canadians in general

Chris Carter

Oliver Stone (remember WILD PALMS)

Stephen Spielberg (E.T. , War of the Worlds)

Charles Beaumont (Twilight Zone [original series])

George Orwell ("those damn Yanks are turning Our Britain into their- very own Air-Strip One")

Huxley (Brave New World)

H.G. Wells (his leftwing attidude against us Americans)

Stanley Kubrick (Dr Strangelove was very anti-American)

[muir_redwoods]

Philosophers' Stone By Colin Wilson is great but the one I always recommend is Childhood's End by Clarke. It's hard to imagine a more convincing story of the end-of-the-world as good news.

Ray Bradbury is the most lyrical SF writer who ever wrote, IMHO

[marc costanzo]

>>He's coming out with a sequel to Dandelion Wine next month--can't wait.
<<

Dandelion Wine, he wrote that over forty fifty years ago ?

I met Ray at the Woodland Hills Library in March of 2001 !

[Darkwolf377]

As are your personal attacks and hints about my sanity.

My God, what a whiney BABY you are. I am not HINTING about your sanity.

I can see why such a wuss is so into this book, though. Anyone wanting to see into the Oedipal gumbo that appears to be your mind need only read the book that's got you all hot and bothered.

I keep saying it over and over: Just read the book. My defense of my position rests there.

SEEK HELP, dude. You have problems.

[Darkwolf377]

Dandelion Wine, he wrote that over forty fifty years ago ?

If I'm remembering properly, he mentioned in the biography about him that he wrote the nugget of this way back when but didn't include it in the novel. Now he's expanded it. Amazon has a description and cover pic; basically, it continues the story into the fall after the last page of the book, and indicates what the hero's future, and grappling with mortality, will be like. I'm very interested in checking this out. The original has some of Bradbury's sappiest writing, but as always with Bradbury, you gotta take the sap with the good stuff.

I met Ray at the Woodland Hills Library in March of 2001 !

I'm envious--a friend of mine met him years ago and said he was great to talk to, very nice to his fans in this small town high school where he came to speak.

[marc costanzo]

>>I'm envious--a friend of mine met him years ago and said he was great to talk to, very nice to his fans in this small town high school where he came to speak.
<<

Ray had a stroke a few yrs ago and is not as active as he used to be !

He does not get around as much as he used too . .

[cgbg]

imho the best military sf ever written was S.M. Stirling's "The Domination".

Click on my name for more info.

[Darkwolf377]

Yeah, there's a photo of him in the biography showing him with W and Laura. He's in rough shape, but he's still here.

I really enjoyed his "Death Is A Lonely Business" and 'Graveyard for Lunatics" mystery novels.

[marc costanzo]

EE 'Doc Smith's books were among my first science fiction literature .

Pulp Fiction by today's standards,
back then they called it 'Super Science Fiction'.
That was L. Ron Hubbard's territory !

One of his tomes, LENSMAN was turned into an anime by the Japanese several years ago ~ but it was more like a Star Wars ripoff ! ! ! !

[Swordmaker]

I am not HINTING about your sanity.

No, I agree. You aren't "hinting." You are being outright obnoxious and rude.

Is it impossible for you to have an intelligent discussion about so trivial a thing as a book without insulting your opponent?

I keep saying it over and over: Just read the book. My defense of my position rests there.

Your repetitive assertions do not prove your point. I have read the book... and there lies your problem. It is not up to me to defend your position.

Since you really cannot support your claims with proof, you resort to attacking and smearing those who disagree.

[Oztrich Boy]

[Malsua]

Kim Stanley Robinson - bleech. I kept wishing the characters in his books would get killed. Unfortuneately they were the heroes. Picture a bunch of disciples of Hugo Chavez colonizing Mars and you get the picture.

I take a different approach to that. I wish that author had killed himself before writing that dreck.

I have read thousands of Science Fiction books. I have a vast library that practically fills one entire room. Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars series is the ONLY series I simply could not complete. In fact, when I read Red Mars the first time 12 or so years ago, I didn't finish it. A year or so ago, I was determined to read it just for the sheer challenge of staying awake. I made it through it, finished Green mars but Blue mars was my widowmaker. I just couldn't do it and havn't to this day. Absolute garbage. I figured Something would happen and other than the space elevator wrapping around the planet...nothing ever did.

Now having recently re-read all of Card, I picked up the "Second Foundation Trilogy" by Brin, Bear and Benford and I really enjoy it. It's a refreshing look back at how R. Daneel Olivaw and Hari Seldon guided the empire...during the days that the empire was supreme. I'm enjoying it.

Oh and not on your list. Jack Chalker.