Posted on 08/04/2006 8:27:36 PM PDT by Halfmanhalfamazing
On August 4th, we found out that Lenovo Group, the company that has taken over IBM's Personal Computing Division, had made a deal with Novell Inc. to preload SLED 10 (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) on its ThinkPad T60p mobile workstation.
For the first time, a major OEM (original equipment manufacturer) has committed to preloading a Linux desktop.
(Excerpt) Read more at desktoplinux.com ...
I'm aware of the rule. Some days I just can't take it though. Hang out on these tech threads enough and you too will want to beat him with a 2x4.
This could be a record for the number of topics he has no clue on.
I was just thinking the same thing when I saw this thread pop up on the main list.
Is this a great country - and forum - or what? Where else can a tech thread devolve (or is that evolve) from tech, to firearms to motocycles, cars, captialism etc.. and still be relevant.
God, I love the smell of napalm in the morning... it smells like.. victory!
;-)
OMG you own a SONY?
The world is coming to an end - film at eleven.
Umm so, if we have a choice, it's okay to go with a foreign company/product? I know, Sony is at least made by an ally, as opposed to say RCA, the guys that invented most of the NTSC technologies, color especially, but they're owned by the Froggies now.
Oh wait, you're saying we do have a domestic choice in computer OS. Microsoft. And we should follow, no matter what, because he is the ONLY American alternative.
For some reason I keep thinking of a coralary in the animal kingdom... hmmmm... what was it.... oh yes: Lemmings!
So if Bill Gates jumped off a cliff you would follow solely because he was an American CEO of an American company and he said it was the best way to go?
Gotcha! Okie Dokie... after you...
As far as the car companies go, they have no one to blame but themselves. GM and Ford both are in danger of being bought out. Is it because we were not patriotic enough to buy their products, even though they didn't devliver in the price/performance/quality arena, or was it because of incompetence?
Hmmm....
How the latest Internet Exploder exploit working for you? Have you locked down PING yet? Restricted outgoing ICMP packets?
Fortunately someone put the word out. Hint: It didn't come from Redmond!
Er, N3WBI3 already stated why he doesn't use BSD. So he already answered your question.
However, I'll throw in my two cents' worth...
I use it occasionally (by way of FreeSBIE, an Italian-American venture to create a live FreeBSD CD with basic tools on it), though primarily as a novelty...
OTOH, the BSDs are becoming (IMHO) easier to use and can have a stronger showing. They still have a lot to go before they'll be as viable as Linux and Mac OS X for a desktop OS.
Linux is my workhorse OS, though there's a few things I still use Windows for (e.g. my master iTunes library, a few games I can't successfully run under WINE, Office 2007 beta).
I don't use BSD or one of the Unices because while they're rock-solid and secure operating systems, they're just not completely usable for most day-to-day tasks. Linux is by comparison much more developed, I can run most of what I need to do with it, and it is still fairly secure.
Simply put, I use what I think will work best to get the job done right. For example, one doesn't use a hammer when they need to tighten a bolt. Rather they use a wrench or a socket set.
Likewise, an OS is a tool. Different OS's do different things, and all have their strengths and weaknesses. For many, MS-Windows does enough for what they need to do. Macs are excellent for media creation and manipulation, and Linux is for those who like a secure OS that they are firmly in control of.
Though if you really want to talk about an undeveloped OS, how about Plan 9 (http://http://cm.bell-labs.com/plan9/)?
bad link. here's the corrected one.
http://cm.bell-labs.com/plan9/
I'm more than glad I did. This SUSE distribution is an absolute gem--and it didn't cost me a cent.
I'm out of Microsoft prison and the air smells sweet.
Wait--SLED 10 is a free download?
However, sometimes they use a sledgehammer to open an RPG!
We're talking about Linux being a foreign product, not your obsessive hatred of Bill Gates. Don't like Windows, get a bonafide Unix - OSX, Solaris, BSD
I prefre to be able to attack problems with the tools I need for the job, at my discretion, not whatever some bozo in Redmond decided I need.
American Unix's are from Redmond? Since when?
I don't care one bit if other people use MS-Windows, OSX, or OS2 for that matter (yeah, there are still die-hard OS2ers out there). Use what works for you. Use what suits your needs.
Sure you don't care. Tantrums like this are just normal events for you, completely unrelated.
If you would actually participate in the forum rather than try to execute some misguided jihad against those of us who don't share your particular religion of Microsoft worshop, you might find that people wouldn't be quite as nasty to you.
I am participating, promoting American products, and America. You guys promote foreign products, apparently according to what has been said because you treasure the technology above all else, and in your opinion foreign products are superior. The rest is just you being sore about it, because it's out on the table, and not an admirable position to take. And you only look worse when you start all the childish name calling, if it's not me, it's the evil Bill Gates, or some other successful American. But I guess its all you have left.
I read about that...
Repeating a lie doesn't make it true, troll. I know that you are aware that many Linux distributers are US companies. Just because your religion requires it to be foreign doesn't mean it actually is.
Sure do, number one selling TV brand in the world. And probably the best choice, since there's no actual American competitors left last I heard.
The difference is, I do it with regret, and don't spend countless hours pushing Sony on others, or telling everyone how great I think other foreign products are anytime anyone questions me about it, like you guys are doing here.
I still have the original disks (somewhere) from the first release of that OS. And yes, underdevloped is appropriate. But it was a labs project and I got them for free, well okay, my BU was charged for them.
You don't know your history. UNIX was considered open source until someone decided he could close it, then the lawsuits started.
I know your version of events is that the intellectual property belongs to the people
I, like Linus Torvalds, see open source as a development model with some other fringe benefits, not as a philosophy like you and Stallman do.
I can make absolutes about my personal decisions. Just as you can say you'll never buy Lenovo, I'll never buy an OEM PC again.
I've got a small qemu vm that has Plan 9. It's certainly different. Now if I can figure out how to surf the web and type a doc with it (though sam and acme seem like they could do it)...
Microsoft needs competition. That's a good old American virtue, too.
I plan never to make the way too expensive jump to Vista. There will be plenty who will continue to pay enormous sums to Bill--any amount he demands.
I won't be one of them.
The 'brass' aspect of the moniker was what initially struck a chord with me; you do tend to wax brassy in the expression of your opinions. After that, the image of the buzzard just fell into place; circling around, squawking and picking at whatever bit of raw meat it could hook its beak into. Look, not to be offenseive, but the manner in which you frequently opine has earned you a reputation as a gadfly. Not that your opinions are so odious, but your expressions are oftentimes less than amicable. In that environment, others find it more difficlut to retain their own civility, as well, and the whole thread, then, is at risk of spiralling down to barbarian exchanges.
Linux is a foreign clone of Unix built by a guy who didn't want to pay for US products, and wanted to turn our software industry on its head.
Regardless of his personal motive, if he initiated the development of an operating system that others have, by their voluntary collaboration, now substantively augmented to the point that it is a viable and robust option for the modern desktop, I can't see condemning the present-day product over the scurrilous mindframe of it's progenitor. It's grown so far beyond him and become so much bigger than him that his mindframe at the outset is now no more than an historical factoid. Frankly, that initial odious intention has, itself, been subsumed by free market forces as LINUX has developed. Linus has so lost control of his brainchild that it is now useless to him as a weapon in his hoped-for conquest. There will always be idealists, but market forces are inexorable and will outlive them all. Also, never forget: youth and skill always succumb to age and treachery.
But Unix is originally an American product, American products are older and more mature, and are now available for free too. Why use the foreign fake, when the original US products are available to you?
Since the original and the foreign fake are both free, the choice should rest entirely upon the user's preference for the feature sets offered by each. Furthermore, since they're both free, it should be no skin off of anyone's nose who opts for which.
I'm concerned about all software licensed by leftist fanatic Richard Stallman, known as GPL software.
From your thumbnail of him; detestable is an appropriate choice. While I've no problem with someone who has the time and energy sitting down and banging out the best product they can and giving it away -- it's their sweat and toil to give, after all -- taking that to the level of State control through market interference and taxation is truly deplorable. That stated, someone's always going to have a free application here or there, and once in awhile, they'll code in a gee-whiz feature that makes consumers wonder why the software they paid for hasn't got that feature, too. That's one of the legitimate forces in the marketplace that keeps driving the "for profit" software makers to improve.
Really, this whole idea of "ownership" is foundational to the discussion. In days of yore, if you paid for the software, what you got was yours. Now, it's never yours; you just have a license to use it. More recently, the payment has changed in some cases from an up-front lump-sum, to an annual billing based upon usage. I've seen software that requires a web connection or it won't install. Once installed, it reports to a company server every time it is launched. More than any other aspect of software sales and distribution, it is this kind of thing that I think the consumer is having the most difficulty coming to terms with. It's very difficult for the consumer to grasp that what they have in their hands isn't theirs to do with as they please. That notion grates upon the American individualism we've cultivated for over 200 years. It's like the difference between the way Tany and Apple handled the architecture of the old TRS-80 and the Apple II. The TRS-80 was less powerful, less feature-rich, but you could get the technical documentation for it, right down to the schematics, and it was very popular. It was a garage EE's dream. People began making and publishing tweaks for everything from fonts to graphics, memory expansion...the fact that Tandy Corp opened up the architecture of the machine made it a fertile ground for experimenters and innovators. The Apple II, by contrast, was a black box. If you wanted a schematic of it, you had to be good with a logic probe and an ohmmeter; you sure weren't going to get one from Apple; not officially, anyway. Yeah, there were tweaks and mods published for the Apple II, as well, but the closed attitude fostered at Apple put a real damper on that activity; it seemed that they always thought of every machine as "their" box no matter who's desktop it sat on. Well, the same way folks locked onto that wide-open TRS-80, they lock onto LINUX. People like LINUX because they can get into the guts and wrench on it if they want to. The big difference is that, while it used to be the case, LINUX isn't playing second fiddle, anymore; it's become a potent contender. Yes, it still demands more technical expretise to handle it, most performance items do demand more of their users, but the load isn't onerous and the payoff is worth it for many. And, if you change your hardware, LINUX won't make you call Redmond for a new code.
Surely you're not inferring there are no American automobiles worthy of your purchase.
LOL! If I didn't have higher priorities, I'd snag a new Dodge Charger SRT8 HEMI, myself. Or I might save $10K and get a 2007 Saturn Sky roadster, instead. No, I simply meant to point out that much of the improvement on the domestic automotive front has been driven by consumer-pleasing quality and features introduced by foreign makers. Detroit had to jerk itself out of the Post-WWII complacency it had fallen into -- what with benig the only industrial power in the world from 1946 until about the early 1960's -- and get humping to win back market share they were losing to more tightly fitted, higer-quality import models. Except for a few models -- the Corvette comes to mind -- that refocusing on quality didn't really begin to hit the showroom until the late 1980's, but it did get there. The foreigners taught us that we couldn't rest on our laurels and we'd best keep improving if we hoped to stay on top. That interplay was ultimately to the great benefit of the consumer as Detroit's standards came up, they economized their drivetrains, tightened up the fit and finish inside and out, and now produce solid products with some truly outstanding models among them.
Stick with Windows XP, or get a Mac.
Actually, I do like my XP Pro; it's been the best Microsoft O/S I've used, so I plan to hang with it for at least a few more years. But, my corporate IT guru has a Mac Book with dual core Intel CPU architecture that is truly a thing of beauty. When I first saw it, he had it running XP Pro inside of a Parallels virtual machine. XP was right at home; thought it was in command of a 100% wintel box. A couple of other things he's done with it were jaw-droppingly sweet, too. So, come time to upgrade...maybe...
Plan 9 is at least working to get Stallman out of their software completely. What you guys don't have is any principle, techno whores all the way. That would be fine if all you wanted to do was tinker, but nah you guys come on here and carry Stallman and Torvald's water constantly, now down to pushing Chicom systems just because they run your preferred foreign software. You should try Solaris if BSD is too hard for you, it's American, more mature, and has several advanced features now and upcoming that don't exist on Linux.
Our interests sometimes cross, but philosophically we are quite different.
You are the one on this board who chooses software based on philosophical criteria, the rest of us mainly like open source for its usefulness, cost and other practical reasons. Another name that pops up on this board a lot, usually first mentioned by you, is also a person most famous for choosing software based on philosophical criteria -- Stallman.
IOW, you are the one most clearly like Stallman, you're just on the flip side of the same philosophical coin.
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