India: New Interest In 'Jesus Grave' In Kashmir

Aki/Asian Age ^ | Jun-12-2006 06:14 pm | unattributed

[Gengis Khan]

"In order to make the claim that "Christianity and Eastern religion are much alike", you find it necessary to throw out 2,000 or so years of Christian teaching and thought, including (explicitly) the Death and Resurrection of Christ."

Firstly, how much do you know about what you broadly club as "Eastern mysticism" in order to make the above claim that there is absolutely nothing common between the two?

Do you know that the Persians had a God called Mithra whose concept was borrowed from Krishna and also the a lot of things about Jesus is very similar to both Krishna and Mithra.

[grey_whiskers]

I didn't say there is "nothing in common between the two"...

You claimed that "Christianity and Eastern religion are much alike, here's some books saying Jesus went to India."

I read the capsule descriptions and they claim that Jesus did not die during the crucifixion, and went to India instead of being Resurrected.

What you claim about the historicity of those accounts, is not my point. My point is that such accounts are explicitly NOT those of Christianity.

And, as I posted earlier, Jesus himself is quoted in all four gospels predicting his death, giving his life for the world, and coming to life again.

And those points are CENTRAL to Christianity, as they are not CENTRAL to any other religion I have heard of...and therefore the similarities are not as striking to me as the differences.

Cheers!

[MHGinTN]

Perhaps this is why Islamofascists want to slaughter Hindus. Isn't that black rock in Mecca the stone once kept in a Hindu temple on that same site? And wasn't al al'elah a minor moon goddess in the Hindu pantheon?

[CarrotAndStick]

To the above, no, and no. Ridiculous.

[Gengis Khan]

I didn't say there is "nothing in common between the two"...

 

You wrote:

In order to make the claim that "Christianity and Eastern religion are much alike", you find it necessary to throw out 2,000 or so years of Christian teaching and thought, including (explicitly) the Death and Resurrection of Christ.

 

Well firstly, Christianity is a lot more then just "Death and Resurrection of Christ". Christianity is also about the life of Christ and his teachings without which Christianity is nothing. The moot point is that the teachings of Christ is very strikingly similar to many aspects of Hinduism. "Death and Resurrection of Christ" is but an imagery which in today's Christianity assumed greater importance such that it has overshadowed the events in his life and his teachings which is what Christianity is all about.

 

Talking about ressurection, in your previous post you had argued from a rational point of view as to how would it be possible to cover a large distance from Israel to India over the vast Persian empire. In that case from a rational point of view I would ask you how would it be possible for Jesus to die and then be "Resurrected"? Unless he hadn't died at all, in which case it is quite possible that he may have left Israel and went to the east.

 

And, as I posted earlier, Jesus himself is quoted in all four gospels predicting his death, giving his life for the world, and coming to life again.

And those points are CENTRAL to Christianity, as they are not CENTRAL to any other religion I have heard of...and therefore the similarities are not as striking to me as the differences.

Resurrection is a very recurrent theme in many religion especially in Hinduism. Which is why I asked you how much do you know about the " any other religion " that you talk of.

I dont know if you know this or not but Christianity came to India far earlier then it reached Rome, (far earlier then the Roman Catholic Church came into existance). In fact the older eastern Chruches in southern India are one of the most prestine Christianity you will find anywhere. They preserve a lot of the original teachings and beliefs of Christ. Modern day Catholics, Protestants and Bapstist consider them to be heretics who need to be converted or "saved". They are not recognised as Christians.

You probably know this for fact that Bible (old Testament) was first written in Persia. Persia and India were the two places where the Vedic Aryans first settled. The Zenda Avestan and Vedic-Sanskrit cultures were almost the same, the two even shared a common linguistic heritage. Both cultures has the concept of Heaven and Hell, God and Satan, Demi Gods and Demons, personified Good and Evil etc.

[Gengis Khan]

"And wasn't al al'elah a minor moon goddess in the Hindu pantheon?"

Which goddess is that?

[Gengis Khan]

Pinging you again to an interesting discussion.

[MHGinTN]

" ... assumed greater importance such that it has overshadowed the events in his life and his teachings which is what Christianity is all about." "In that case from a rational point of view I would ask you how would it be possible for Jesus to die and then be "Resurrected"? Unless he hadn't died at all, in which case it is quite possible that he may have left Israel and went to the east." It is not likely that I, for one, will take you seriously when you make blasphemous assertions like Dan Brown in his novel makes. The death and Resurrection IS the essence of how the Grace of God is in Christ, redeeming the world. Is His life important? Absolutely. Is it THE central point of His life on Earth? No, but you want to believe that, it would appear, to allow for a rather convoluted 'exception clause' to the contract between Adam and God, and reject the all important Christ codicil to same.

[Gengis Khan]

It is not likely that I, for one, will take you seriously when you make blasphemous assertions like Dan Brown in his novel makes.

 

I understand the whole thing is quite a sensitive issue to tread on but while we discuss the veracity of certain events and aspects in the life and times of an important historical/religious figure one can only do so by keeping an open mind. This whole thread is about findings of a grave in Kashmir that, according to some, belongs to Christ. You may consider this whole thread to be blasphemous.

 

From a Hindu point of view (me being a Hindu), Jesus was an extraordinary humanbeing, perhaps an avatar (manifestation) of God. For me his teachings are more important the the imagery of Death and Resurrection.

 

Curiously the Muslims believe that Jesus was neither crucified nor resurrected; he ascended bodily into heaven without having first died. They believe that God would not have allowed his prophet to die an ignoble death by crucifixion. There are two theories in this regard:  that Jesus substituted Judas Iscariot for himself on the cross, or that God intervened and removed Jesus from Roman captivity before the crucifixion took place. They regard God as being single and indivisible. The Christian Trinity of three persons is rejected as the ultimate blasphemy against God.

[Gengis Khan]

BTW The Trinity is actually a Hindu concept.

[Cronos]

Many of Jesus' teachings have an uncanny resemblance to various Eastern philosophies.

Actually Judaism as a whole was influenced by eastern Philosophies (mostly ZOroastrian) after they were conquered by the Persians. Remember that Iran was a great and glorious cultural empire before the greeks. In fact, the greeks just added to the glory that was Persia

[Cronos]

Well, the 10 tribes were mostly sent to different parts of the Assyrian empire, away from their homeland and they wouldnt' have been allowed to band up. remember that the nortern tribes were practically following the religions of the canaanites and other neighbours, so they most likely got assimilated amongst those peoples. The lost tribes descendents would be found amongst the present day peoples of Iraq, Syria and Jordan.

[Cronos]

crap -- the Indian government has better things to do then just go about making stories about one religion.

Though they could market it to get tourists to come to Kashmir! how many idiots go to Paris just because they read that adverb-filled book, the DaVinci Dode?

[Cronos]

Note that these are Islamic beliefs. Islam is derived from Gnosticism and Arianism, so they would try hard to portray that Jesus never was crucified

[Cronos]

Actually Mithra is older than Krishna -- he's an Aryanic god mentioned in the Vedas and the Avestan.

[Cronos]

Hindu -- the term itself comes from the Persian meant to denote everyone who lived in the Indian subcontinent east of the Indus river.

[Cronos]

Not really -- the emergence of the concept of the Hindu trinity is post-christian nestorian influence. Remember that Hindu thought was in flux after the falure of Buddhism in the 2nd century and 3rd century AD with the rise of the Nandas and others. That's about the period when VEdic Hinduism is slowly subsumed by Brahmanical Hinduism and the primitive Aryan gods (like Indra, Varuna, Agni) are displaced by more philosophically richer (and I agree that most of THAT philosophy is purely Indian in thought) Hinduism revolving around Vaishnavite thought.

[grey_whiskers]

"Death and Resurrection of Christ" is but an imagery which in today's Christianity assumed greater importance such that it has overshadowed the events in his life and his teachings which is what Christianity is all about.

No, the worldwide symbol of Christianity is the Cross.

Kinda hard to miss.

And not only did you gloss over Jesus' own quotes about his death and resurrection, you are completely incorrect about "but an imagery."

In that case from a rational point of view I would ask you how would it be possible for Jesus to die and then be "Resurrected"?

Umm, that's why it's *called* a miracle, and pointed to as a great work of God. D'oh.

Resurrection is a very recurrent theme in many religion especially in Hinduism.

Yes, but Jesus' Resurrection is held up as a specific occurrence for a very specific purpose (the sinless destroying death by His death and resurrection), prophesied beforehand, and not as part of a pattern in the great circle of life.

(far earlier then the Roman Catholic Church came into existance)

There was Christianity in Judea and the environs first of all; and Saul of Tarsus helped spread it far and wide; all before the Roman Catholic Church assumed formal organization...

Both cultures has the concept of Heaven and Hell, God and Satan, Demi Gods and Demons, personified Good and Evil etc.

Yup. But the Hebrew Scriptures pointed to Jesus, specifically...and Jesus Himself said so. But you choose to ignore that.

Cheers!

[NeoCaveman]

How dare they rip off the Japanses.

(/sarcasm)

[SunkenCiv]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1645561/posts?page=38#38