Posted on 03/05/2006 10:37:06 AM PST by pcottraux
Stegosaur in Cambodia?
What real evidence exists for dinosaurs having survived into more contemporary times? What are we to make of the carving of a Stegosaur (Stegosaur stenops) on an ancient Cambodian temple at Angkor Wat?
This carving is now being shown to tourists, proclaiming it is a dinosaur. Such a situation, thusfar, has only caused a few comments online, at such locations as the Unexplained Earth webpage last summer, as well as other sites.
But all this appears to be changing, with more and more attention to this item. For example, there is new talk of this on the Interactive Bible site, giving this background to the location:
The magnificent jungle temples of Cambodia were produced by the Khmer civilization, beginning as early as the eighth and extending through the fourteenth century A.D. One of, if not the greatest monarchs and monument builders of this empire was Jayavarman VII, crowned supreme king in 1181. Portrait statues, depicting him meditating in the fashion of Buddha, have been found throughout the region. An excellent example can be seen in the National Museum Of Cambodia in Phnom Pehn. He built the beautiful temple monastery Ta Prohm in honor of his mother, dedicating it in 1186.
These awesome temples were rediscovered by Portuguese adventurers and Catholic missionaries in the 16th century and many were restored in 19th and 20th centuries. Ta Prohm, one of the most picturesque, was left in its natural state. It recently gained international attention as the setting for the first Laura Croft movie.
It has been on Ta Prohm, which abounds with carvings of all sorts of local animals, where a carving of a Stegosaur has been discovered.
How could this have happened?
Did the prop crew of the Laura Croft movie pull off a prank, and restore the temple, placing onto this wall a dinosaur facade? If you will note, on the photos, the panel seems to be of a lighter shade of gray. Is this due to it being kept cleaner for tourists, or because this is a newly added panel?
Perhaps it is nothing more than a rhinoceros? There is speculation that at one time or another Cambodia had Indian, Javan, and Sumatran rhinos living in the country. Or have Stegosaurs roamed Cambodia, less than 1000 years ago and Angkor’s master artists created a representation of one, on a temple?
How certain religious groups may wish to use this material to promote their belief systems is of no concern to me, as long as what they are pointing out is precise and without fakery. In this case, I am sincerely interested in securing tangible, scientific evidence via cultural artifacts of the rather unbelievable thought of dinosaur survival, if it exists. If it is a hoax, I want to pursue that to that end result, too.
Wouldn't be the first hoax in palentology.
I'd like to be added to the ping list, please. I love this stuff!
Nope. Sure wouldn't.
You're on.
I didn't think that Stegos ranged in SE Asia back in the day. Really weird.
Crossover Ping.
Take a look at this.
I believe that Man & Dinosaurs DID exist together at one time (most likely before the Great FLood in Noah's time).
I don't. I believe the dinosaurs and most large predators decline gave rise to hominids a little over a million years ago. Geology and Genesis are irreconcilable.
That creature in the carving may be a razorback boar, but the possibility of something else certainly is enticing.
I've also heard that in the ruins of ancient Babylon, statues and stone carvings have been found of dinosaur/sauropod like creatures with long necks and other features.
"What are we to make of the carving of a Stegosaur (Stegosaur stenops) on an ancient Cambodian temple at Angkor Wat?"
What if it's really nothing?
As was suggested in the article,
"Did the prop crew of the Laura Croft movie pull off a prank, and restore the temple, placing onto this wall a dinosaur facade?" It also suggests this is a newer panel.
Maybe, it was:
* a band of alcolytes making fun of the dean of the temple.
Perhaps they were gathered together giggling as Ly "Stinky" Meang drew it on a dare, and it is their way of saying "The dean is a big, fat monster."
* an ancient Khmer soldier leaving the equivalent of "Kilroy was here" on the temple wall.
* maybe this was a Cambodian equivalent of a comic book (I refuse to call it a graphic novel," and the children of the area gathered together every day to see the installment of the adventures of Big Animal Man.
* perhaps an ancient Cambodian science fiction novel-of-the-month.
* maybe the work of a Cambodian artist who really needed glasses to draw an elephant.
* perhaps the wine-tasting for the opening of the new temple art gallery was proceded by a LOT of wine tasting by the artists.
* maybe it was a gang of artists who wanted to found a new kind of animated art who discovered it was WAY too much trouble and only drew the first equivalent of a Cambodian cel.
* maybe it's an elephant drawn by a bitter Cambodia Democrat who lost ANOTHER election.
One the other hand, there are those who believe the earth is relatively young and this really represents a steosaur-like animal.
1. There are not any record in this period either here or in adjacent areas for such a creature.
2. Extensive Khmer murals elsewhere have no such representations.
3. The creature would have had to live in the upland areas as the valley areas where heavily farmed. There are records of wild cattle, rhinos, tigers, elephants, exotic animals imported for royal amusement, etc.
4. These temples were not isolated in the jungle in their day and have been heavily looted in the past 100 years. Where are the bones?
5. Is it just coincidence that fossil dino discoveries have generated excitement in the Isan districts of Thailand?
6. It looks too "new" to fit the adjacent panels of carvings.
Yeah, those are excellent points. I think it may be slightly possible, but as you point out, it is VERY highly improbable.
I think this looks a bit too hoaxy for me.
However, the American Southwest petroglyphs are very compelling.
Yeah, the general feeling I'm getting is that this seems to be a faker.
Nevertheless, I'm all for examining any new thing that comes up, even the stuff that is clearly not real (how else to determine hoaxes from non-hoaxes?). Hopefully that's what I'm getting at with my crypto ping list.
I don't accept the OT stories legimately. I believe that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and that most dinosaurs were extinct 70mm years ago. That being said, the paleontological record proves nothing. It can only tell us about animals that were preserved. A good analogy comes from archeology. For a long time, people believed that pottery was the major articistic expression of ancient Greece. Why? Beacause the vases and amphoras were the most common artifacts found. It took a long time for science to realize that these objects were to most likely to be preserved and ignored by future discovery. Paintings rotted. Buildings collapsed, and metals and marble were recycled. My point is that just because the bones of a creature were never discovered, it does not follow that that creature DEFINITELY did not exist.
BTW, on reading this back, I should note that I am merely making a point, not arguing with you directly.
The comments on the page (I think that photo of the man is of Don Patten, but wouldn't swear to it) suggest a known but extinct rhino; to me it looks like a very stylized whatzit, perhaps a wild boar, otherwise a fantasy animal (or a rhino). :')
HI!
1) It is not lighter grey that is only the lighting, checl out the second pic and you can see that the darker grey areas on the first pic are just as light.
2) It really doesnt look like a newer panel.
However, It could have been partly remade, so an existing image could have been altered, and made to look old afterwards.
More likely is that this is an authentic image of a rhinoceros or other animal. Keep in mind that no skeleton has been found of a stegosaur that is only thousands of years old.
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