It's a workhorse though!
Posted on 03/05/2006 6:25:43 AM PST by LouAvul
I want to buy a Glock. Currently my semiautos are Sig 200St and two 1911s (both Colt).
I don't have a 9mm yet have owned several: two Browning HPs and Sig 226.
I've never owned Glock and am leaning toward a model 17.
The concerns with Glock seem to be centered on the fact that there is no external safety for a semi-auto that remains cocked and locked.
There are also concerns about firing out of battery/kabooms.
However, the latter concerns are mostly for calibers other than 9mm and models other than the 17.
One poster from another forum:
This is also anecdotally more prevalent in Glocks although I suspect the huge number of Glocks in service contributes heavily here. It's also heavily centered on the .40 caliber. The 9mm Glocks are almost universally - even by Glock haters - acknowledged as exceedingly safe (as far as OOB and kBs go) and reliable.
Different poster, same forum, different thread:
9mm Glocks don't seem to be a problem for some reason... I think a big part of this is that the 9mms were considerably over-engineered. I think a lot of that over-engineering is why the .40 could be shoehorned into the same basic design with only minor changes. And I think that loss of margin is why the .40s, seem to be so much more problem prone.
I'm thinking that since the model 17 is the flagship of Glock that maybe they've worked out the bugs.
It's a workhorse though!
How about the odds of accidentally depressing the 1911's grip safety, AND the trigger, AND accidentally pushing off the safety, all at the same time?
A Glock is NOT like a revolver, unless it has the 11 pound cop trigger. A standardd trigger Glock is closer to a cocked 1911, with no grip safety, and no manual safety.
For perfect, error free shooters, such a safety-free 1911 would also be perfectly safe.
In most cases they were the ones aimed at me.
They are different.
One goes kaboom with a round chambered when the trigger is depressed.
The other won't if the safety is on, or even if the main safety is off, the grip safety must also be depressed.
Which one is safer for the average human?
I'm an average human, which is why I didn't buy a Glock for the second time, a choose the 1911.
But don't let that stop anybody from buying a Glock. I owned one, it was reliable.
I just never trusted it, because it was they only gun I ever owned that didn't have a safety.
I'll take one with a safety, and I don't think turning it off is a big deal when it's time to shoot because that's what I'm used to.
Call me old school. But, the condition I keep that 1911 in, it will NOT go off without first moving the safety to fire.
That probably means less chance of an AD. Not a guarantee, just a natural precaution for those of us who are use to guns having a safety other then actually pulling the trigger. It also rules out an AD by having the trigger pulled by some accident.
Accidents do happen you know.
I guess so!
I'm convinced that I'm not perfect.
So, and much thanks to you for pointing that out, I did not buy another Glock.
And I don't regret it one bit.
The safety, on or off, is a natural thing to me. Something I have always been aware of. Every weapon I ever owned had one.
For me, it is, and always has been, the last step before actually pulling a trigger.
And it doesn't take very long to make that crucial decision or to execute. But I believe that is a brief moment in thought that is well spent.
Not to mention that the sumbitch ain't going to go off when I don't really, really, expect it to.
Uh, I mean DON'T expect it to.
One missed word, and a sentence just falls apart.
Humans!
Hmmm... I wonder if I have some of that...
Why is steel cased ammo bad in that gun?
From what I've read, the Glock pistol (maybe depending on which model, the ones chambered for 40 caliber are mostly mentioned) does not fully enclose the cartridge, leaving a bit of the bottom not surrounded by the chamber.
And steel is more brittle then brass.
Steel on steel friction is not good-can wear the chamber. Brass is softer than steel-does not wear the chamber.
Long term use of the Steel cases can damage the gun.
Steel is more brittle than brass and is more like to fail when other factors are out of spec.
planekT: I wil not argue with you on your preference for the 1911 over the Glock. I own and use both. Each has it's good and bad points. If I had my way, I would carry a 1911 on and off duty, but there are very practical reasons my department doesn't allow it on duty. There are some on my department that quite frankly, I wouldn't let them carry it off duty.
The Glock is a reasonable and safe alternative that I have no problem carrying. In fact given the circumstances, it is a preferable weapon over the 1911.
You say the 1911 is safer than a Glock. I will say the 1911 in the right hands may be safer than a Glock. Put either one in the wrong hands, and ca-ca occurs. The ultimate weapon safety is the human mind.
The Glock vs 1911 argument will never be solved bewteen the true proponents of them. The debate can get pretty rabid sometimes, however, it does not need to be the Good Vs Evil debate that some make it out to be
I can't argue with what you're saying. I think you're right that safety begins and ends with the user.
I just like the 1911 better, and I'm no pistolero like a lot of folks here are. I had the Glock 23 and that's a reliable and very conceable weapon, but I'm not sorry I got rid of it.
You stay safe out there.
Sounds like we are pretty much in agreement that the gun is only as safe as the user of the gun. LOL!
"Sounds like we are pretty much in agreement that the gun is only as safe as the user of the gun. LOL!"
Darn!!!, I was trying to make it degenrate into a Steeler/Seahawk style bashfest :)
Well, let's have another go at it.
This time, it's table saws vs radial arm saws.
LOL!
Oh, those Steeler/Seahawk arguements nearly drove me batty.
No, not that! Anything but that!
"In fact, IIRC, shooting reloads might even void the warranty."
Every firearm warranty that I have says that because if a firearm does go KB who knows how that round was loaded. It makes perfect sense and I reload.
Here's a real "pistolero" at work:
So there I was....what really happens to tactical "tools" in a fight
Or -the Mall Ninja goes to the Store
Thanks to Glock Talk for this Gem:
As I was leaving my house I stuffed my Glock 10mm "man gun" Mexican style in my pants. My backup is a fully customized 1911 with all the IPSC add on options in my $500.00 leather pancake holster custom made by Belgian Monks who have devoted their lives to silence and holster making. These are the ones used by SEAL Team 6, which I used to be a part of but all records of my activities were destroyed in a fire "accident".
I put on my Royal Robbins photographer vest to match my pants while wearing a T-Shirt underneath reading "from my cold dead hands", that way nobody can see what I'm packing.
I had my Centennial .38 Special in my ankle holster, just like the gun rag guys carry.
Lastly I had my "Covert Sniper" I.D. Card in my wallet with my "Concealed Weapons Permit Badge". I was ready for anything.
I drove my Bug Out Truck to the 7-11 for some beer, cause you never know. It is a performance styled Subaru BRAT with 4 cylinders of ground pounding fury.
I pull up to the 7-11 store and notice a nefarious looking girl scout eyeballing me from the back of her mother's SUV. A likely cover.
The mother returned to the truck and went for the keys in her purse, but I knew from my years of combat honed instincts that she was actually making a furtive movement for an offensive weapon.
I attempted a tactical shoulder roll, but fell flat on my face, kind of flopping on the pavement to avoid any incoming rounds and to make it look like I meant to do that. The store owner called 911 which is good because I then did a roll and attempted to draw my Glock.
Unfortunately, since I did not have a holster, the gun "went off" and the bullet creased my weiner. But I was prepared for that and bit down on a 9mm casing to take my mind off the pain as I dove for the garbage barrel.
That's when I noticed the girl scout shouting something to her mother who began to take cover. I knew they were closing in on me so I drew my custom trusty 1911 Wilson COMBAT....I knew that they would be impressed with that. I then duck walked to the front of her SUV but my gut kinda got in the way and I fell on my a$$, which caused me to swallow my 9mm casing.
I then tried to roll to my right, but didn't want to scuff my holster so I just threw myself into telephone pole, but I landed on right side anyway. So I fired one shot towards the woman's SUV to pin them down as I recovered my wind.
And before the mother knew what was happening, I charged her and I threw my groin into her knee. I knew that as I vomited on the ground in front of her that I had interrupted her OODA loop, I had the advantage now. As she ran screaming for the girl scout (I knew she was going for backup)
I made for my Super Charged BRAT tactical truck. I jumped into the driver seat forgetting that I had left my rare Israeli contract AR 15 Bayonet on the seat honed to a razors edge. I could handle it though, half my a$$ is an implant from war wounds. As I attempted to start my truck police and paramedics arrived on the scene. My truck would not start and instead backfired once, which caused the police to tase me.
At which point I tactically soiled myself while in convulsions. My custom 1911 then fell out of the window but I still had my Centennial .38. I knew that I had to take out the woman with the purse.
So I aimed my revolver at her at which point the first police officer fired once striking me in the chest. Fortunately I was wearing my level 3A body armor. I didn't want to hurt the cops, they had obviously been duped by the evil temptress who was now embracing her partner in crime and crying to the police in the background, I knew it was a ruse.
I pulled out my concealed weapons permit badge and showed it to the officer who shot me and yelled out "I'm one of you guys", he continued to cover me and ordered me to drop my .38 so I layed it down, I still had my bayonet after all, attached to my a$$.
The cop walked toward me and upon reading the badge maced me right in the eyes. Fortunately my Oakley shooting glasses stopped most of the spray and I was able to rip free of the taser cords easily, it only cost me one nipple, easily replaced. I dove for the passenger side of my truck and began to run zig zag for a ditch, unfortunately the bayonet sticking out of my a$$ slowed me down, I knew it would have to be hand to hand now.
I knew the cop couldn't take me when I saw he merely carried a Glock 17, not a mans gun. So I immediately threw my eye into his right hook, followed by a knee into his Maglight.
As I lay thrashing on the ground I took the heel of my Bates enforcer boot and kicked at the cops ankle, I knew that from my classified experiences in Tajikistan that once breaking the ankle, the cop would fall down and I could "stun kick" him in the head, knocking him out but now hurting him.
Apparently the cop had also been to Tajikistan because he side stepped me and struck me in the back with his ASP baton, but my trauma plate absorbed it. I then drew my Benchmade auto knife and was promptly tased again, but I was ready for it this time and only wet myself a little bit.
Next thing those cops knew I was unconscious. That'll teach 'em.
ping to 79 ern
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