Advice on good .30-06 rifle? (Vanity)

Self ^ | 2-20-06 | Self

[TChris]

I'm beginning to look at buying a rifle. Everything I've read so far indicates that the .30-06 is a good, all-around caliber/cartridge.

I saw a Remington model 710 with a Bushnell scope for sale at a store the other day. Any comments on that model?

Other advice?

[tractorman]

Just be sure you don't buy the UAW rifle.
It doesn't work and you can't fire it.

[Echo Talon]

Since your employer blocks sites heres a picture of the Savage with the Choate stock :)

[TChris]

Just be sure you don't buy the UAW rifle.
It doesn't work and you can't fire it.

LOL! Thanks for a chuckle. :-)

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7265275&aa=%20Remington%20%20Model%20710%20Caliber%2030-06%20spingfld.%20w/%20scope


Above URL is like yours.

This is a Remington Model 710 in Caliber 30-06 Springfield. This gun is Brand New. Sorry, no box. Also new, included is a Bushnell 3x9 scope with the Duplex Crosshair. This gun has a 22" barrel and a detachable clip magazine. This gun is equiped with the factory "J" hook lock, which locks the firing pin. I accept Cashier's Checks or Money Orders. Shipping is $25.00 in the lower 48 states. Alaska and Hawaii slightly higher. FFL required.

[faq]

The Remington 700 is an accurate rifle. Looks like you live in Wyoming, so you will be shooting long distances at probably antelope, mule deer and elk too. I think a 30-06 is a good choice for that. It's big enough, but not too big. If you have problems with accuracy, try experimenting with different brands of ammo. The biggest problem with shooting straight though is just holding it steady. You might want to buy a monopod or bi-pod.

[El Laton Caliente]

Everyone I've spoke with that has the Savage in .308 really likes it. If I quit buying an AK or two a month I'm going to own one... There are several of the guys over at the web site I'm a mod for (www.gunsnet.net about 30K members)that have them either with the Choat or McMillian stocks. Most shoot a dime size 100 yard three round group out of the box with the right ammo.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

What do the guys you hunt with recommend?

[FearlessFreep]

I have a Savage .308 witht the accu trigger. Nice shot pattern. BUt for the 30-06, I use a Remington 7400. Have never missed a Whitetail with it. I use a 180 grain bullet.

[Echo Talon]

I know, I did some research awhile back bacause I wanted one and everyone seems to like the Savage, its kind of hard to justify they price of the Remington when you can get the Savage Rifle and A good Scope for about the same Price as just the Remington 700.

[VRing]

"The Remington is probably MORE accurate"

I'll argue that the Savage is more accurate. Here's why:

1. The Rem uses a hammer forged barrel while the Savage is button rifled. Hammer forging makes a harder, longer lasting barrel but it induces so much stress into the steel that it will not hold a tight group as it heats up. Also, hammer forging means that the bore has to be tapered, or you'll never get the mandrel out.

2. Remington, in order to minimize the effects of heating, and various stresses in the factory bedding, uses a pressure pad in the very front of the barrel channel. This pad places a few ounces of pressure on the front of the barrel to dampen vibrations and reduce flyers.

3. Remington ships rifles with the most lawyer proof triggers on any American rifle. Savage got around this by developing the Accu-Trigger. Rem triggers can be tuned to a very fine let off but if you don't know what you are doing you are asking for trouble doing it yourself. A trigger job ads $50 - $100 dollars to the cost of an already expensive rifle.

4. The Savage method of breaching, using a barrel nut to secure the tube in place and a separate bolt head allows the 10 - 110 series breach to "self center" and make up for errors caused by manufacturing tolerance. I've never seen a factory assembled Remington bear evenly on both locking lugs.
In other words, I really like Savage rifles. Remington used to have an advantage in after market parts and accessories but this is changing, too.

[TChris]

I'll argue that the Savage is more accurate. Here's why:...

Thanks for the details. I think I'm persuaded to look for a Savage in .30-06 or .308, at this point. :-) Anybody have the ballistic differences between .30-06 and .308?

[Echo Talon]

Personally I would go with the Savage, I like the Remington 700 actions, I would like to see a competition between the 2.

[saganite]

Production model hunting rifles won't achieve the accuracy of the high dollar bench rest rifles that target shooters prefer but there are some things to look for in the construction of the rifle. This articles offers some good insight. Once you've read it you can look at rifles with these characteristics and get very good accuracy. Good luck.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/gunsmithing/bedding_0304/

[Echo Talon]

Accuracy Facts .308 Winchester versus .30-06 Springfield

[VRing]

"Anybody have the ballistic differences between .30-06 and .308?"

The '06 is going to give about 200 FPS more than the .308 with any bullet up to 180gr. Over 180 the .308 isn't even in the game. The '06, assuming 24 inches from bolt face to fresh air, will easily drive a 200 grain bullet to 2600 FPS, giving enough power for any job you can ask a rifle to do. Better yet, '06 ammo in every flavor is available everywhere.

[Echo Talon]

At the peak of the .30-06's use as a competition cartridge, the most accurate rifles using it would shoot groups at 200 yards of about 2 inches, at 300 of about 3 inches. The 600-yard groups were 6 to 7 inches and at 1000 yards about 16 inches. As the high-scoring ring in targets was 3 inches at 200 and 300 yards, 12 inches at 600 and 20 inches at 1000, the top scores fired would have 90+ percent of the shots inside this V-ring.

Along came the 7.62mm NATO and its commercial version; the .308 Winchester. In the best rifles, 200 yard groups were about 3/4ths inch, at 300 about 1-1/2 inch. At 600 yards, groups were about 2-1/2 inch and at 1000 about 7 to 8 inches. It was not very long before the .30-06 round no longer won matches nor set any records; all it's records were broken by the .308 by a considerable margin. Some accuracy tests at 600 yards with the .308 produced test groups in the 1 to 2 inch range. These were 20 to 40 shot groups. No .30-06 has ever come close to shooting that well.

At 1000 yards, where both the .30-06 and .308 were allowed in Palma matches, the .308 was the clear-cut most accurate of the two. If top shooters felt the .30-06 was a more accurate round, they would have used it - they didn't. In fact by the early 1970s, the scoring ring dimensions on the 800 - 1000 yard target were also cut in about half due to the accuracy of both the .308 Win. over the .30-06 and the .30-.338 over the .300 H&H when used in long range matches.

Most top highpower shooters feel the main reason the .308 is much more accurate than the .30-06 is its shorter, fatter case promotes more uniform and gentle push on the bullet due to a higher loading density (less air space) and a more easily uniformly ignitable powder charge.

[thackney]

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30065*R308W2


Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R30065 Remington® Express® 180 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.383
R308W2 Remington® Express® 180 Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.248


Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2700 2469 2250 2042 1846 1663
Remington® Express® 180 SP CL 2620 2274 1955 1666 1414 1212


Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2913 2436 2023 1666 1362 1105
Remington® Express® 180 SP CL 2743 2066 1527 1109 799 587


Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 0.0 zero -1.3 -4.2 -8.8 -15.4
Remington® Express® 180 SP CL 0.0 zero -1.7 -5.3 -10.7 -19.7


Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 180 PSP CL 2.1 1.8 zero -3.5 -9.0 -26.3 -54.0
Remington® Express® 180 SP CL 2.6 2.3 zero -4.1 -11.8 -36.3 -78.2


Note: These ballistics reflected a test barrel length of 24" except those for 30 Carbine and 44 Remington Magnum which are 20" barrels.
Specifications are nominal. Ballistics figures established in test barrels. Individual rifles may vary from test barrel results.
“zero” indicates yardage at which rifle was sighted in.
* Inches above or below line of sight. Hold low for positive numbers, high for negative numbers.
1 Bullet does not rise more than 1" above line of sight from muzzle to sighting-in range.
2 Bullet does not rise more than 3" above line of sight from muzzle to sighting-in range.
† 280 Remington and 7mm Express Remington are interchangeable.
‡ 6mm Remington and 244 Remington are interchangeable.

[VRing]

Unfortunately, there aren't many facts there. They are talking about rounds but comparing rifles. In the '60s Highpower was undergoing a transition from being military training, using military rifles to being a civilian game where anything goes. You can't compare Springfield rifles in '06 to Remington 40Xs in .308 and come to the conclusion that the .308 is more accurate. There's too many differences in the guns to make the comparison valid.

[Echo Talon]

Why do US police and Snipers use 308?

[VRing]

"Why do US police and Snipers use 308?"

Because the 7.62x51 NATO was adopted as standard in 1954.