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College Football Bowl Games - Live Thread - 31 December 2005
Espn.com Scoreboard ^ | Today | College Football

Posted on 12/31/2005 8:48:22 AM PST by MikefromOhio

The games don't have nearly the marquee names as yesterday did, but there is a potential for some good games....

Did anyone catch the brawl in the walkway last night?


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: bowlgames; collegefootball; ev1net; libertybowl; mienekecarcare; sports
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To: easymoney

That last post was a computer malfunction to say the least. I'm generally a bit more literate.


21 posted on 12/31/2005 10:46:45 AM PST by Bogeygolfer
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To: MikeinIraq

I concur, the 12 still has 3 games to play and we could still end up a 500 conference. Where as the PAC 10 can do no worse than 60% in there bowls.


22 posted on 12/31/2005 11:05:32 AM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: MikeinIraq

Nice sideline reporter in the NC State game. I'd like to get my hands on Heather's Mitts...


23 posted on 12/31/2005 11:05:45 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Dog Gone

According to ESPN USC is the greatest team to ever walk this earth. They planted the flag at Iwo Jima, Bush went heads up against Jordan and trounced him and have secretely invented the cure for old age.


24 posted on 12/31/2005 11:08:04 AM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: aft_lizard
The only thing Matt Leinart messed up during USC's unbeaten 2004-05 national championship run was coach Pete Carroll's hair while celebrating the Orange Bowl victory over Oklahoma.
MARC SEROTA: REUTERS
photos

Dec. 31, 2005, 12:40AM
Southern Cal is staking a claim as college football's all-time best

LOS ANGELES - It isn't the University of Southern California's 34 consecutive wins. Oklahoma, after all, holds the record at 47 in a row, and the Trojans won't even surpass Miami's 34 from 2000 through 2002 unless they win the Rose Bowl next week against Texas.

It's not the back-to-back Heisman Trophy winners. Army did it first with Mr. Inside, Doc Blanchard, and Mr. Outside, Glenn Davis, in the 1940s, and Notre Dame players won twice in three years a couple of years later.

It's not having two All-Americans in the same backfield. Even Texas has done that on more than one occasion. As for the two national titles, it's actually 1 1/2 and counting. Remember that LSU, after all, was the BCS national championin 2003.

It's doing all of the above, and more, at a time circumstances dictate otherwise, that places the Trojans of Matt Leinart, Reggie Bush and Pete Carroll in such rare air as they prepare to play the Longhorns in the Rose Bowl for the BCS title Wednesday.

"If they win, they're probably at the top," said Dave Lapham, the former NFL lineman who is the lead analyst on Fox Sports Net's Big 12 broadcasts. "In the era of 85 scholarship-limit football, they will be a true dynasty at a time when such things aren't supposed to happen.

"Scholarship limits were supposed to make sure you couldn't do this, and USC is doing it."

In the discussion

Dan Jenkins, who holds a highfalutin title as official historian of the College Football Hall of Fame, has been watching high-stakes college football since 1935, when he accompanied his father, a dyed-in-purple TCU fan, to one of the first Games of the Century, SMU vs. TCU in 1935, with the Southwest Conference title and a Rose Bowl berth on the line.

"I thought SMU had niftier uniforms," Jenkins said. "My dad told me to shut up."

So Jenkins' opinion in this matter, as in most, is not to be taken lightly. And his opinion is USC doesn't have to beat Texas in the Rose Bowl to be ranked at the top of the list.

"Even if it loses a close one to Texas, this USC team over the past three seasons will rank up there with the best — Army in the '40s, Notre Dame from '46 through '49, Oklahoma during Bud (Wilkinson), Nebraska in the '90s, Miami in the late '80s," he said.

What Jenkins hasn't seen in 70 years watching college football, Keith Jackson probably has. The veteran ABC announcer, who will call the Rose Bowl on Wednesday, in typically terse fashion puts the 2005 Trojans in their place, but in an exalted place nonetheless.

"This matter of rating teams is a really difficult thing to do and an almost useless exercise," Jackson said. "When they freed the arms of the offensive linemen (to block), that changed the game. And so the teams of the 1930s, '40s and '50s in my mind are different than those that followed. I've always felt the 1972 USC team was the best I've ever seen, and 1995 Nebraska joined them. If this USC team beats Texas, they are right there with the other two."

Both of Jackson's favorites are linchpins of dynasties that have been ratified by the test of time and, in a sense, by the NCAA. In the late 1990s, the NCAA record book included a list of two dozen bona fide dynasties, dating to the early days of the 20th century. That list included the USC teams of the 1970s and the Nebraska teams of the mid-1990s.

NBC Sports analyst Pat Haden, the quarterback of the 1972 USC team, said the Trojans of that era were close-knit but loose, much like this squad.

Players such as Haden and Lynn Swann garnered most of the attention, but the real heart and soul of the squad were players such as offensive lineman Pete Adams, who was accompanied to virtually every team function by a dog known in print as Turk but whose real name wasn't suitable for a family newspaper.

Trojans a classy act

"Chemistry is often a hackneyed and overused term, but we had it," Haden said. "But in terms of talent, we couldn't touch these (2005) guys.

"What strikes me the most about them is that they seem to be egoless, even though they have two Heisman Trophy winners. In an era of boorish behavior by some athletes, that's refreshing to see."

Texans kicker Kris Brown was a freshman on the 1995 Nebraska team led by quarterback Tommie Frazier that won the Cornhuskers' second consecutive title.

"We were so dominant from start to finish," Brown said. "We trailed only 13 minutes, 20 seconds — less than a quarter — for the entire season. No one came close to beating us.

"We didn't run a conventional offense, which was one reason we were so hard to stop. But we had the players to pull it off, too. When Ahman Green's your backup running back, that tells you something. If we played USC, I think we'd win by, say, 38-24."

So USC isn't a unanimous choice as the greatest, even if it beats the Longhorns next week. Patient historians might wait to pass judgment as well. The dynasties cited by the NCAA lasted no less than six years, and some as long as 16.

Some might prefer to wait a few years, and a couple of more recruiting cycles, to put USC at the top of the heap.

As for the signature team of USC's run, ESPN analyst Lee Corso thinks it came last year.

"They smacked that Oklahoma team (for the national title) in what was the single most impressive one-game performance I've ever seen," Corso said.

Is it even USC's best?

Others might rank the 2003-2004 Trojans behind the 1972 team of which Washington State coach Jim Sweeney said, "USC's not the No. 1 team in the country. The Miami Dolphins are better."

That team, led by Haden, Swann, Sam Cunningham, Richard Wood and Charles Phillips, was 5-0 against ranked teams and never allowed a run longer than 29 yards.

But that was another era, in the final days before scholarship limits were imposed in 1973. In this era of limits, if the Trojans aren't the best, they're on the way.

"It would be a tough argument not to put them there," said Ron Franklin, who will call the Rose Bowl for ESPN Radio. "There's more parity across the board, and this team has won in just absolutely grand fashion."

If there is a common denominator between the current Trojans and teams of the past, Jackson said, it's between the ears of the players.

"They are not disturbed that they're down two at halftime." he said. "They look at the clock and it says a minute to go and they're 80 yards away, and it doesn't disturb them. They watch each others' backs, and they do it together."

Chronicle staff writer John McClain contributed to this report.

david.barron@chron.com


25 posted on 12/31/2005 11:14:34 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone

I personally still wouldnt call them the greatest CFB team of all time, Sagarin, Sports Illustrated and ESPN(the experts not the blithering talking heads) all concur that 1995 Nebraska is, oh yeah and CBS does too.


26 posted on 12/31/2005 11:23:37 AM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: aft_lizard

The 1995 Nebraska team was awesome. If USC wins on Wednesday, they set a new bar for consecutive national championships. They'll surely have earned the right to share history's stage with the Cornhuskers.


27 posted on 12/31/2005 11:28:05 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: aft_lizard

"I concur, the 12 still has 3 games to play and we could still end up a 500 conference. Where as the PAC 10 can do no worse than 60% in there bowls."

You're right except the 12 put in 8 teams and 6 of these are average at best and 5 of the 8 were underdogs so 500 would be considered a solid above average performance especially considered how maligned the 12 has been this year. The 10 on the other hand put in 5 teams so the concentration of better teams is significant. Of those all five were favorites and some significantly. From a betting standpoint the 10 should fare well with 3-2 being an under achieving performance. Against the spread the 10 is 1-3 and the 12 is 5-0. That says alot about performance against expectations and against the level of competitiion each has faced so far. The 10 hasn't played a ranked team in the bowls yet while the 12 has knocked off three ranked teams including the #6 Ducks.


28 posted on 12/31/2005 11:28:09 AM PST by Bogeygolfer
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To: easymoney

Oh dont get me wrong the 12, especially the North by now should have shut up all of the naysayers by now. I am just pointing out that its too early to crow even with our so far impressive showing.


29 posted on 12/31/2005 11:34:13 AM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: Dog Gone

Definately. What can anybody say if they do three-peat except greatest ever.


30 posted on 12/31/2005 11:35:09 AM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: aft_lizard

Iowa State is not looking too impressive so far.


31 posted on 12/31/2005 11:46:28 AM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: aft_lizard

Not impressive at all. TCU is up 7-0, just recovered a fumble by Iowa State and ready to score again.


32 posted on 12/31/2005 11:47:25 AM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: aft_lizard

TCU TD, 14-0, just 7 minutes into the first quarter.


33 posted on 12/31/2005 11:50:55 AM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: raptor29
I don't live in PAC-10 territory, nor did I attend a PAC-10 school. However, in an earlier FR post (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1526266/posts?q=1&&page=1) I stated that I believed the PAC-10 and ACC had shown themselves to be underranked conferences when it came to recent bowl game performances. I had always believed that the PAC-10 was underrated because they didn't play games in the "correct" time zones (and because the sports media is dominated by Big 10 alumni).

Then I looked at the history for the last six years (why six? -- because www.collegefootballpoll.com only goes back that far and the research was easy).

During that period, the ACC had the best bowl record, 19-11 (yes, some of the ACC games were against smaller conference opponents, but many were against the majors); four years with an overall winning record. The SEC followed with 24-20, virtually all against majors; three years with an overall winning record, two with a tie (and at least three wins each of the six years -- not bad when you consider that 2005 was the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY the Big 10 had three bowl wins three years in a row). The Big 10 was 18-21; two years with an overall winning record, four with a losing record. The PAC 10 was 14-19, with only two winning bowl seasons. The Big 12 was 22-26, with only two winning bowl seasons.

During that period, the SEC had winning bowl records against the ACC, the Big 12, and the Big 10. I may have missed one, but I didn't find a single PAC-10/SEC bowl matchup in the last six years (I know there have been regular season games, and the PAC-10 has dominated the SEC there).

The big loser was the Big 10, at least when it came to winning the games it was supposed to win. I didn't look at performance versus the spread. If a team was favored to win (by one point or twenty), I looked to see whether it won or lost. If a team was picked to lose, I looked to see whether it lost. 57% of the Big 10 teams picked to win their bowl games over the last six years lost; 38% of those Big 10 teams picked to lose their bowl games won. By contrast, in the SEC, only 35% of those SEC teams picked to win their bowl games lost, while 42% of those picked to lost their bowl games won. I didn't throw out any statistics favoring the Big 10. I just ran the stats, and you can imply anything or nothing from them.

As Mark Twain said, there are three kinds of lies: lies, d*mned lies, and statistics. I don't mean to prove anything with these statitics (except that you can always make money betting against the Big 10).

34 posted on 12/31/2005 11:55:44 AM PST by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred)
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To: aft_lizard
"I concur, the 12 still has 3 games to play and we could still end up a 500 conference. Where as the PAC 10 can do no worse than 60% in there bowls."

I just wish our guys coulda played unranked teams Rutgers, BYU, Northwestern, and Oklahoma instead of #23 Clemson, #20 Michigan, #6 Oregon, #14 TCU, #13 Alabama, and unranked South Carolina and Houston.

Though, in their 4 games, the Pac 10 has given up 124 points, while the Big XII has given up only 105 in 5 games. That is notable, I think.

35 posted on 12/31/2005 11:55:57 AM PST by RabidBartender
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To: aft_lizard

BS review of that, his forearm was clearly not touching the game.


36 posted on 12/31/2005 12:03:18 PM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: aft_lizard

Yep, he got screwed there...cost them a 1st down, too.


37 posted on 12/31/2005 12:04:08 PM PST by RabidBartender
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To: RabidBartender

TCU is impressive so far, very fast team.


38 posted on 12/31/2005 12:08:37 PM PST by aft_lizard (What does G-d look like then if we evolved from nothing?See Genisis Ch 1:26-27)
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To: MikeinIraq

Thanks for the thread....I'm a hopelessly addicted football fan! :-)

Hubby is a U of Tulsa alumni, so have to be for them. One of my nieces is a TCU grad, so go Frogs!

What brawl?


39 posted on 12/31/2005 12:08:56 PM PST by Jrabbit (Kaufman County, Texas)
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To: Jrabbit

last night at the end of the LSU-Miami game, something started in a tunnel leading off of the field and then both benches got involved.


40 posted on 12/31/2005 12:09:36 PM PST by MikefromOhio (Proud "Heathen" (although I regularly attend church) South Park watcher. Live with it.)
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