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What are Unions good for?
Posted on 12/08/2005 3:29:26 PM PST by Hotdog
Having worked in the automotive industry for 30 years on the "white collar" side I have yet to understand what good the Unions are... other then to bleed the automotive and other industries and it's members of money. Can union members or anyone else tell me what good they are in todays working environment? Can Union members tell me why the color of the collar makes a difference?
Have at it....I would really like to get some honest answers...
posted on 12/08/2005 3:29:26 PM PST
What are they good for?
posted on 12/08/2005 3:32:05 PM PST
(Replies should be as pedantic as possible. I love that so much.)
The UAW arose in the 1930s when Henry Ford, faced with declining demand during the depression, attempted mass layoffs and increased automation at the River Rouge plant, then Ford's largest. When other manufacturers attempted to do the same, they were faced with similar agitation (ie the strike at the GM plant in Flint, MI, where the workers took over the factory in response to new hours of service rules and layoffs).
In other industries, you can argue that unions were necessary to protect working conditions. In the auto industry, however, the unions have ALWAYS been nothing but a barrier to cost competativeness and rational management. Unfortunately, Detroit has lacked strong management since the 1940s.
As the son of an auto industry executive, I can tell you that the fall of the U.S. auto industry is ultimately rooted in GM's approval of extensive social welfare bennies following WWII, and the lack of a comprehensive management strategy since that period. There really needs to be a major shakeout at both the management and labor levels.
posted on 12/08/2005 3:34:14 PM PST
(Free minds, Free markets, Free society)
Over the years Union Thugs have forced on the American Businessman socialist programs like the 40 hour work week, paid vacation, health insurance, sick time and costly safety programs.
The cost of these must be in the trillions.
posted on 12/08/2005 3:43:10 PM PST
(a system poltergeist stole it.)
As a high level employee working with the automotive industry I can only agree...and I think it's just beginning on a serious note!
posted on 12/08/2005 3:45:29 PM PST
Teachers' unions are good for keeping your property taxes higher than needed in addition to aiding your kids to be more stupid as they undergo early leftist training.
They are also good for the dem political machine as the extort money to run dem campaigns.
posted on 12/08/2005 3:48:37 PM PST
(Detroit is the New Orleans of the north, settled by the French and ruined by liberals.)
You know, it's a shame...my daughter graduated from collage and received her teaching certificate and the first thing she was asked to do was join a union...fortunately she lives in a right to work state and she refused indicating she wanted to be a teacher...not a fundamentalist
posted on 12/08/2005 3:57:07 PM PST
Putting my property tax through the roof.
posted on 12/08/2005 4:07:59 PM PST
(Vous parlez trop, mais vous ne dites rien.)
With all the Government regulations in place today...what else does the Union offer besides gouging?
posted on 12/08/2005 4:13:49 PM PST
Well, what do you think of police, firefighters, teachers and American Federation of State, Municipal, County Employees unions. Only 12.5% of manufacturing in the U.S. is unionized.
Unions had an important role. I think they may still but not to the extent they have today.
What about Baseball, Football and Basketball unions? Why do they even need a union?
posted on 12/08/2005 4:48:28 PM PST
I have never liked unions. When I became a civil servant, I joined one though.
If you remember the air traffic controller strike during the Reagan administration, you know that federal employees can't strike, not that I ever would. The federal employees unions have no teeth.
After 8 years with the government, I finally ran across a problem that I couldn't resolve by dealing with reasonable people, and I filed my first grievance. It wasn't responded to at the third step, and my problem worsened. I filed a second grievance that also wasn't responded to at the third step. The union refused to ask my agency to respond. The union contract required them to respond within 10 days. After nearly a year, I still hadn't received a response. The union told me that I had no right to complain. They had grievances that hadn't been responded to at that step, and had been waiting since 1988. My agency didn't even have anyone assigned to addressing union grievances.
The union took great delight in telling me that I was a pain in the a$$ and they wouldn't be taking my grievance to arbitration, even if I paid the cost out of pocket.
I was more of a pain in the a$$ than the union realized. I researched it and learned that there was an open season to withdraw from the union. I made up fliers at my own expense and had fellow employees who agreed with me post the fliers in their cubicles. I distributed the forms to allow people to withdraw from the union. I led a charge out of the union that cost them thousands of dollars per year in union dues.
The individual that I filed the grievances against continued to harass me. He was transferred out of my chain of command, and placed in my husband's. My husband was then harassed, and his grievances went unanswered. This individual harrassed several others too. Those individuals had paid attention to how ineffectual the union was, and because there were now enough individuals harrasses that there was a pattern, they filed EEO complaints that they won. To this day I don't know how much the agency paid out in legal fees, and lost EEO actions and lawsuits, but if they had paid attention to my grievance, and not just ignored it, they could have saved a great deal of money.
If the union had been working on my behalf, they would still have all of those employees as dues paying members, and there would still be the illusion that the union was there to protect the workers.
My battle was very public. Although most people didn't verbalize their thoughts, they were watching to see what the union was going to do. I was willing to tell my problems to anyone who was willing to listen, and eventually everyone know what was going on. I still am amazed at how stubborn and how stupid the union was.
Don't even get me started on sports....they are all a joke...OK...let me ask one question...this should get someones goat (and remember...you don't know what race I am) never mind...I'm not going there! Not worth my effort!...Like I said...sports unions are a joke...they do nothing but shut down seasons for the soul purpose of money...and they are losing that fight...just ask the Hockey Players....joke....joke...joke!
posted on 12/08/2005 4:54:30 PM PST
Look at the news...I really believe the Unions have met their match...they can't suck pleasure from a dead playmate...and the playmates are beginning to realize they are getting sucked dry and are reverting to anti "Leach" medication...it's only a matter of time!
posted on 12/08/2005 4:59:03 PM PST
With a name like Hotdog, you could only be a wiener schnitzel
I believe the unions have been quite effective in attacking capitalism, limiting choice, and dumbing down workers and students in our once-great America. Union history is rife with socialist/communist infiltration.
posted on 12/08/2005 6:16:04 PM PST
(Losing, like flooding, brings rats to the surface.)
Your answer, my friend, is none. no good at all are the unions to anyone. Government Unions? s*** bro, the government is already a union! Unions are nothing but miniaturized NAZI war machines, all of them, by definition. I live in california where we have the Longshoremans union, the A holes turned back HUGE shipments that had marked their cargo with Barcodes, barcodes my friend. wich would put hundreds, maybe thousands of people out of work, why? because "they"* need people to hold clipboards and jot down numbers by hand.
They*- Union Leaders and officials, wanna-be-mini-Adolf Hitlers who fill their pocketbooks with the Union Members sweat and tears and political kickdowns from their FHURER,
The democrat party.
this year a fix was proposed by Arnold and the california RNC called prop 56, i believe it was. this proposed that union members get to choose wether or not they want their "Union Dues" being used for POLITICAL campains for democrats wich is what they are used for. the proposition was shot down by a lot, along with others, Like Abortion Clinics not being able to perform abortions on minors WITHOUT THE PARENTS CONSENT, and teacher tenure getting toned down,teachers union is another union stranglehold on our lives. the main reason these where shot down is NOT wholly due to popular opinion, but due to unprecedented amount of money that was raised by the california democrats to hold off these Awesomely helpful propositions with massive propoganda. with any luck they will go through next year as the DNC blood money is used up.
I hope this helps. your pal splify.
heh, and idiots say Republicans and right wingers are NAZI.
makes me angry.
posted on 12/08/2005 6:34:33 PM PST
(Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the gun.)
Having been on both sides of the unions, I have come to the conclusion that they are nothing more than a legalized occult. When my wife and I finally decided to get out of the union and even worked during the CWA strike against SBC, the smiles from their members faces had turned to fangs. They turned into little snakes, slithering around in the dark secret network, checking on how they can best attack you and with poison in their lips. They tried to fabricate every lie they could to get me fired or where I would need them to help me - which they failed. The members they fight for could not even hold down a job at a fast food restaurant yet, the union fights to keep them on and still paying them $25/hr to be a burden to the department they work in as well as the company itself. As long as you agree with them and what they think and do, you are are friendly to you, but step outside and think on your own, and they will attack you and try everything they can to take you out. Sounds like an occult to me.
posted on 12/15/2007 12:25:53 PM PST
In an economic sense, unions artificially raise wages higher than what they really should be in an open market. Because of this, there’s a mis allocation of scarce resources (in this case, labor) that could probably be working somewhere where their efficiency would be better economically.
Anyone that hasn’t read Thomas Sowell’s book “Basic Economics” really should. It’s invaluable.
posted on 12/15/2007 12:35:42 PM PST
(Don't panic, folks. Rush Babies Will Save America.)
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