Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Vanity: Calling all Biology or Mathematics experts, I need an opinion on a problem.
12/5/2005

Posted on 12/05/2005 3:00:51 PM PST by dawn53

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-73 next last
To: dawn53

I get my boxer shorts at K-Mart in Cincinatti.


21 posted on 12/05/2005 3:30:24 PM PST by Maximus of Texas (On my signal, pull my finger)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: supercat

My bad: how can reproduction rates average anything other than one per individual with a stable population?


22 posted on 12/05/2005 3:31:23 PM PST by supercat (Sony delinda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Grut; faq

That was my answer.

Son thought it had to do with every 10 years, 120,000 are born so in a thousand years 12,000,000 births would give you a rate of 1.2.

Not really a for credit problem, they just turn in their homework, get credit that they've worked on it and then discuss it.


23 posted on 12/05/2005 3:33:22 PM PST by dawn53
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: supercat

Right.


24 posted on 12/05/2005 3:33:24 PM PST by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: supercat
It would seem that in a field of 24,000 antelopes there would be approximately 12,000 births per year. So in 1,000 years there should be 12,000,000 births. If mutations occur at a rate of one per million births, that would suggest 12 mutations.

No, you can't just assume a birth rate, however plausible. The problem says one offspring per ten years. If there's 1 in a million per generation, then there are 100 generations in 1000 years, then you have 100 mutations per individual in 1000 years, or 2,400,000 mutations in the total gene pool. That's small compared to the mammalian genome, so two successive mutations at the same site can be neglected.

It's a sloppily designed problem though.

25 posted on 12/05/2005 3:34:01 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: dawn53

Sorry, meant 12, not 1.2.

And therein is the problem, some folks are getting what my son things the answer is and some are getting what I think the answer is.

The conflict continues, LOL.


26 posted on 12/05/2005 3:35:30 PM PST by dawn53
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: dawn53
"Our discussion hinges on whether the birthrate and lifespan are pertinent information."

Only the birthrate matters, because you're given the 24K fixed population. Supercat's answer is right in #20.

27 posted on 12/05/2005 3:37:07 PM PST by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Right Wing Professor

Let's just say the prof is not one of my son's favorite...he's taking the Bio class to finish out his general ed requirements (you have to have science in both disciplines and up until now, he had not taken any science classes on this side of the aisle.)


28 posted on 12/05/2005 3:37:39 PM PST by dawn53
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: dawn53

Heh.

Good luck!


29 posted on 12/05/2005 3:38:06 PM PST by fanfan (" The liberal party is not corrupt " Prime Minister Paul Martin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: dawn53
And therein is the problem, some folks are getting what my son things the answer is and some are getting what I think the answer is.

If, as stated, each antellope averages five offspring over a ten year lifetime, the population of antellopes cannot possibly be stable at 24,000 (or any number). Rather, the population would increase fivefold every ten years, ten-million-fold per century, and by a factor of almost 10^70 over the course of a millenium.

30 posted on 12/05/2005 3:43:28 PM PST by supercat (Sony delinda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: spunkets
Only the birthrate matters, because you're given the 24K fixed population. Supercat's answer is right in #20.

There are three variables supplied: average birth rate per individual, average lifespan, and rate of population growth (which is specified as none). The supplied values for these variables are contradictory.

31 posted on 12/05/2005 3:45:16 PM PST by supercat (Sony delinda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: dawn53

Hey this is the kid posting. Thanks for the help.

The first time I did the problem I got 12 as well but then I thought about it more, confused myself, then came back to that answer.

I figured that because there were 5 births every 10 years per individual, the population was replaced every 2 years. I then took the 24000 multiplied it by 500 (1000/2). Then divided by 1000000 to get the final answer.

Thanks again for the help.


32 posted on 12/05/2005 3:48:55 PM PST by dawn53
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: supercat
"the population of antellopes cannot possibly be stable at 24,000 (or any number). "

Pops. generally cycle about some average num. depending on death and birthrate. The problem is simplified by using the average pop. size. In this problem birthrate = deathrate.

33 posted on 12/05/2005 3:49:00 PM PST by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: supercat; dawn53
If, as stated, each antellope averages five offspring over a ten year lifetime, the population of antellopes cannot possibly be stable at 24,000 (or any number).

Oops, didn't see the comment about 5 offspring. Sorry.

If we get 0.5 offspring/year/antelope, and it takes two antelope to produce an offspring, then the birth rate is 0.25 offspring/year/antelope. The death rate then has to be 0.25/year; every antelope has a 25% chance of dying per year. I don't see that as a problem.

34 posted on 12/05/2005 3:50:39 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: supercat
There are three variables supplied: average birth rate per individual, average lifespan, and rate of population growth (which is specified as none). The supplied values for these variables are contradictory.

I agree.

35 posted on 12/05/2005 3:51:57 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: dawn53
"I figured that because there were 5 births every 10 years per individual, the population was replaced every 2 years. I then took the 24000 multiplied it by 500 (1000/2). Then divided by 1000000 to get the final answer. "

There you go. Keep up the good work.

36 posted on 12/05/2005 3:52:10 PM PST by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: dawn53
I figured that because there were 5 births every 10 years per individual, the population was replaced every 2 years. I then took the 24000 multiplied it by 500 (1000/2). Then divided by 1000000 to get the final answer.

It's as good as any other answer, but supercat is right. You can't have 5 births per individual every 10 years, a life span of 10 years, and a stable population.

37 posted on 12/05/2005 3:55:48 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: supercat; Right Wing Professor
"There are three variables supplied: average birth rate per individual, average lifespan, and rate of population growth (which is specified as none). The supplied values for these variables are contradictory."

The birthrate is given as births/animal/decade. The deathrate is deaths/animal/decade.

birthrate = deathrate

What's contradictory?

38 posted on 12/05/2005 4:00:39 PM PST by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: spunkets
The birthrate is given as births/animal/decade. The deathrate is deaths/animal/decade. birthrate = deathrate What's contradictory?

Birth rate is stated as 5 per animal per decade. Death rate is one per animal per decade. Birthrate is not equal to death rate, even though a stable population would require it to be so.

39 posted on 12/05/2005 4:02:54 PM PST by supercat (Sony delinda est.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: spunkets

This question cannot be answered as is:

What is the ratio of males to femals in the steady state population of 24,000?

Are we to assume that this discussion relates ONLY to females that equates to only 50% (12,000) of the poplulation or what?

Sheesh...stupid problems from even more stupid teachers.

G


40 posted on 12/05/2005 4:05:24 PM PST by GRRRRR (America is a better place because of people like us...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-73 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson