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Vanity: Calling all Biology or Mathematics experts, I need an opinion on a problem.
12/5/2005

Posted on 12/05/2005 3:00:51 PM PST by dawn53

Pure Vanity Post: My son is taking Biology and working on a homework assignment. Nowhere in his notes are instructions on how to do this problem, and no examples in the book.

It seems like the bulk of the assignment is answering general questions about hypothetical circumstances, not involving mathematical computations. But he showed me this one and he and I are having a bit of an argument about how to solve the mathematical part of the problem.

So here's the beginning of the question, that is in question, LOL.

"Non-lethal mutation rates are usually very low-let's say 1 in a million. If each African Antelope produce offspring per individual over an average lifetime of 10 years, and we have a population that is maintained at 24,000 individuals over time, how many spontaneous non-lethal mutations would enter the gene pool after a period of 1,000 years?"

Our discussion hinges on whether the birthrate and lifespan are pertinent information to solving the problem since it states that the population is maintained at 24,000. I'm no biology major, and neither is he. He's usually right on this kind of information, and I'm usually wrong, but this time I think I'm right, LOL!

Anyone care to chime in? Inquiring minds want to know!


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: math; science
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1 posted on 12/05/2005 3:00:52 PM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53
If each African Antelope produce offspring per individual over an average lifetime of 10 years...

How many offspring?

2 posted on 12/05/2005 3:02:52 PM PST by RedBeaconNY (Vous parlez trop, mais vous ne dites rien.)
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To: RedBeaconNY

left that out, sorry, 5 offspring per individual over an average life of ten years


3 posted on 12/05/2005 3:04:07 PM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53; Fierce Allegiance
100.


4 posted on 12/05/2005 3:07:47 PM PST by Maximus of Texas (On my signal, pull my finger)
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To: dawn53

How many grasshoppers with a wooden leg would it take,
to kick all the seeds out of a dill pickle?


5 posted on 12/05/2005 3:12:55 PM PST by fanfan (" The liberal party is not corrupt " Prime Minister Paul Martin)
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To: dawn53
If each African Antelope produce offspring per individual over an average lifetime of 10 years, and we have a population that is maintained at 24,000 individuals over time, how many spontaneous non-lethal mutations would enter the gene pool after a period of 1,000 years?"

What is missing is the birthrate. Without that there can be no attempt at an answer.
6 posted on 12/05/2005 3:15:31 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: R. Scott

Sorry, it's in post two, 5 births per lifetime per antelope.


7 posted on 12/05/2005 3:17:00 PM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53

.0121?


8 posted on 12/05/2005 3:17:30 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: fanfan

Don't know, but I'd sure like a dill pickle right now, lol.


9 posted on 12/05/2005 3:18:07 PM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53

Oops - 120.


10 posted on 12/05/2005 3:19:29 PM PST by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Maximus of Texas

Care to explain your reasoning?


11 posted on 12/05/2005 3:20:20 PM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53
If each African Antelope produce [5] offspring per individual over an average lifetime of 10 years...

How're they doing this, anyway? Parthogenesis?

12 posted on 12/05/2005 3:20:35 PM PST by Grut
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To: dawn53
"Non-lethal mutation rates are usually very low-let's say 1 in a million.

That's not a rate. A rate would be 1 in a million per year, or per generation. What is the time increment?

13 posted on 12/05/2005 3:21:42 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor

That's what the problem says...


14 posted on 12/05/2005 3:24:15 PM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53

Disclaimer: I'm not qualified in the least to give an expert opinion, but I like these kinds of questions. So here are my thoughts.

Over a period of 1,000 years, at an average population of 24,000 with a 10 year life span, there will have been 2,400,000 antelopes. So the non-lethal mutation rate is 2.4. I don't think the birthrate is important because it says they live an average of 10 years. An average life span of 10 years seems high considering that the number will include those who died at a young age, but the 10 year figure was probably used to simplify the question.

If, however, it is a multiple choice question, I would go with "B".

Let us know the correct answer when you find out.


15 posted on 12/05/2005 3:26:50 PM PST by faq
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To: dawn53

OK. The population turnover is 24,000 every ten years. So that's 24,000 x 100 in 1000 years, or 2,400,000 individuals born in 1000 years. If the NL mutations amount to 1 per million, then there will be 2.4 mutations.

At least, that's my best guess.


16 posted on 12/05/2005 3:27:19 PM PST by Grut
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To: Grut

Doesn't say. Most of the questions are just hypothetical situations like:

If you separated populations by a ten foot wall, would they evolve differently...real brain twisters, LOL.

The whole chapter seems to be on Natural Selection.


17 posted on 12/05/2005 3:27:40 PM PST by dawn53
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To: dawn53

It's a badly posed problem, then. I would suggest your son in his answer state that he has assumed what is meant is 1 in a million per animal per generation. That is the only assumption that makes all of the information provided relevant.


18 posted on 12/05/2005 3:28:45 PM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: dawn53

It's a trick question, there are NO African Antelope!!!!!!


19 posted on 12/05/2005 3:29:51 PM PST by WhiteGuy (Vote for gridlock)
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To: Right Wing Professor
That's not a rate. A rate would be 1 in a million per year, or per generation. What is the time increment?

Presumably one per million births, though I expect the number of non-fatal mutations to actually be much higher (though most of them aren't apt to be of much consequence).

It would seem that in a field of 24,000 antelopes there would be approximately 12,000 births per year. So in 1,000 years there should be 12,000,000 births. If mutations occur at a rate of one per million births, that would suggest 12 mutations.

20 posted on 12/05/2005 3:30:03 PM PST by supercat (Sony delinda est.)
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