Other points of dissent include: - Poverty and income redistribution.
That is definitely trollspeak.
Posted on 09/16/2005 10:49:22 PM PDT by Gustavo
First the confession and a heart-felt apology. I got carried away in the run-up to the last election and lurked and trolled at Free Republic for a while. I am sorry I did this. I realize it was pathetic and deceitful. It was also not very productive.
Please be lenient. I'm sure many of you have done the same on leftists sites. In fact, I think deep down you Freepers and I aren't that different: passionate about our beliefs to the point of getting carried away by (and even obsessing with) politics.
I promise I will Troll no longer. Instead, would it be posible to actually start a dialogue of some sort? As I said, you'd be surprised at how much in common we may have (although I'm pretty sure we're different enough to make this interesting).
For starters, I'm actually a church-going, bible-believing, born-again evangelical Christian, I'm prolife and believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I was also educated in very establishment-friendly schools (in business and economics no less) and work for a bulge bracket Wall Street Investment Bank. I sympathize with many of your libertarian arguments and I'm all for individual responsibility. I'm also a law abiding citizen and all for the rule of law and order.
Further similarities include my deep respect and love for this country, even as a person who was born and has lived most of its life abroad (oops, the differences are starting to pop up!). I've lived in this country for the last 8 years (first under a non-immigrant work Visa before receiving my greencard) and have learned to love and respect the people, culture and way of life of this country that I and my small family now call home. I cannot tell you how many times I've found myself taking America's side of the argument when I go back to my (also beloved) native country (Mexico).
Ok, what are the other differences? Let me start by saying that my father has distinctly left wing views and, although he's never been a militant, he participated in leftwing anti-government demonstrations in the 60s in Mexico while attending med school, and actually spent about 6 months in jail as a political prisoner (unfairly, he had broken no laws). Neither my father nor most of the kids that were demonstrating were communists (although many chanted socialist slogans and sported Che Guevara T-Shirts), in fact, the spirit of the times had more to do with Tiannanmen than with the Bolchevik revolution.
Unfortunately, the US at that time took the side of authoritarian Latin American governments in crushing dissent, in many cases brutally. Such was the logic of the cold war that put everything in the light of the US-Soviet stand-off (Now, I'm not naive and I know that there were probably Soviet agents trying to incite things in the region at the time, but the reality is that most of the dissent was homegrown and ideallistic rather than communist).
I tell this bit of personal and family history to explain my deep misgivings to United States unilateralism and my perplexity at the Conservative position that dismisses multilateralism and anything that has to do with the UN. Ok, the organization has its flaws and many of the countries represented are not exactly democratic, but Americans know better than most other people that a system with checks and balances is better than one that is dominated by one group of people (in this case, one country). Again, recent history shows us several unfortunate instances when United States' international policy caused unnecessary human suffering and fostered authoritarism (Chile and Argentina come to mind among several other examples).
Other points of dissent include: - Poverty and income redistribution. I realize this is probably a bad word here. I also realize that "handouts" tend to create perverse incentives that can perpetuate poverty. However, the poverty gap is still so steep in this country (as compared to that of other similarly developed countries) that I cannot understand why the concept of a safety net for the most vulnerable is controversial... - Healthcare policy. This is perhaps the most glaring example of the above. I would argue that something just has to be done. How can it be that urban infant mortality rates in US cities is sometimes worse than that of some cities in developing countries? (I'm citing something I read in a mainstream newspaper, don't have the original sources to back it up, but I wouldn't take the easy route and dismiss this as some new lie from the "liberal media"). - Illegal Immigration. Ok, I'm not impartial. I'm Mexican and the plight of my countrymen hurts me deeply. Yes, I recognize that the issue is a reflection of the failure of the Mexican society and government to provide enough jobs for its citizens. But it is also the result of the laws of the market based on very evident economic realities (willing workers seeking better paying available jobs to further their lives). That these individuals are breaking the law does not escape me, but (as in the case of looters that scavanged food in the Katrina disaster) I make an important distinction between law breakers that are pursuing a better way of life and most often are otherwise hard working and law abiding (I'm sure there are exceptions). Also, many of these illegal immigrants are actually paying social security taxes (that they can't benefit from) and indirectly paying property taxes (through rents), and more importantly are providing services that are valued by this society. I'm not for the status quo of keeping a blind eye and ignoring the issue, but why does the word amnesty need to be a bad word among conservatives?
I'm really looking forward to establishing some productive exchange of ideas. Not looking to change your hearts and minds (that might be too much), but just to understand your points of view better and maybe help you understand mine.
Sincerely,
Boorrrinnnggg.
Start your own forum, (admitted) TROLL.
You are SUCH a loser!
I joined in March of 2001 but it took me till July of 2004 to post.
What makes you think you're good enough to be recognized?
Answer if you dare, troll...
Don't know if you'll last as returning trolls are usually Zotted right away.
But at any rate...Hi...welcome to FR
Not likely. I'd suggest lurking some more, you've got a lot of learning to do.
For example, I bet every one of the "circumstance" differences you mentioned are shared with someone here. It is bigoted of you to suggest otherwise.
I suppose on income redistribution you'd rather have a flat distribution like your native country. Oh, but you fled that country for the better life here. As I said,lurk some more until you figure out that the answer to planes flying 40,000 feet hight than people can jump is not to ground the planes, it is to rejoice that we figured out how to fly.
In before the Zot?
Other points of dissent include: - Poverty and income redistribution.
That is definitely trollspeak.
I don't think your left-wing views will be very welcome, no matter if you're a nice guy or not. And you seem to be a nice guy.
Technically he's not a returning troll because he never got zotted before -- his account is still from october of last year.
However, isn't it also customary to zot people whose first post is a vanity about how much they can teach freepers about how wrong they are?
Especially when they spend half of their post bashing america, after admitting they fled their own god-forsaken country.
Not really, that's not the 'only' way to formulate coherent, relevant, and well reasoned arguments.
In any case, as I said, there is no unanimity of opinion on FR, never has been. There is a widely aligned world view of its membership. That consensus binds us, though that's not to say there is uniformity of opinion, or a notable lack of disagreement. Anyone can see on any given day that there is a lot of disagreement on FR, but still a largely aligned world view.
Hang out, read, learn. The UN does far more evil than good. Put the UN in charge and there's genocide in Rwanda, genocide in Sudan, nukes in North Korea and Iran, child sex scandals, money laundering on an unprecedented scale. It allows tyrannies to act on equal terms with representative goverments, as if they were equally legitimate. It's profoundly anti-Semitic and overtly supports terrorists in Israel. Search keyword: Oil for Food
The US, on the other hand, has done far more good than evil. We have established the independence of the Western hemishphere from colonial European domination, abolished slavery, defeated both fascism and communism, and maintained the freedom of half the world for over half a century. If you want to take a look at the Cold War as a whole, do you really doubt that those nations on the US side were freer and more prosperous than those on the Soviets'?
Once a knight is enough.
Or something.......
Leni
what you mistake is that people here want to hear a left wing version of things.. we don't need that in house. that is what we have the MSM for... and for whipping boys for us we have the usual misfits from the DU that stumble in here like yourself... I am guess that your time among us is now very short.. watch out for the copper rods and your depature should be shocking... and spectacular (for us at least.)
troll opus aisle 1
Hmmmm.....I am, for once, at a total loss of words. On the other hand, your post is irritating/intriguing enough that I am going to respond anyway. You throw your leftist ideas and blame the USA (or the market or whatever) for the problems in the governance of Mexico.
As a previous poster noted, this is a forum for those with a fairly homogeneous view. We have our differences (illegal immigration, evolution/creation, FEMA, and some others). However, our differing views do not include an embrace of communism or income redistribution.
ZOT!!!!!!!
It's not polite to post an opus and run.
Actually............no.
And FYI...if you care so much for the poor, give them all of your money; yes, all of it! Or, better still, go back to Mexico. The poor here are wealthy, compared to the poor there.
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