A response to a liberal - Was I out of line?

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:41 PM

> Hope everything is going well with you and DELETED. > Things are ok on this end, shame about the people > suffering from the hurricane. I got your e-mails and > thought you may find this time-line interesting. Give > my best to DELETED > Love, DELETED > > It has been a week since Hurricane Katrina devastated

> the Gulf Coast, leveled New Orleans and left hundreds > of thousands of Americans homeless. We saw the best of

> forward to offer help. Meanwhile, the Bush > administration failed at their most important job:

> keeping America safe. The federal effort was too > little, too late and it is now becoming obvious that > hundreds or even thousands of people died as a result. > > Then, starting Friday, in a Karl Rove-led campaign,

> the White House started to blame state and local > officials and even the victims who were stranded > without transportation when the Hurricane arrived. > Sign our petition demanding that the Bush

> and local officials, and focus on helping them. > > http://political.moveon.org/helpvictims/?id=5965- 3472349-B5U.TNUzXGTjvCJnUqVHVg&t=3 > > We'll begin to deliver the earliest signatures to the > White House tomorrow, Thursday, when a delegation of > MoveOn members from New Orleans, who are now homeless

> and will come to Washington and join other MoveOn > members outside the White House at a petition delivery > and protest. The petition is one important way to > demonstrate that the public wants more action to help > hurricane victims and is getting angry about this

> blame-shifting game the Bush administration is > playing. > > It is important that the Bush administration not get > away with shifting their responsibility to local

> officials. Here is what actually happened. > > Timeline > > Friday, Aug. 26: Gov. Kathleen Blanco declares a state

> of emergency in Louisiana and requests troop > assistance. > > Saturday, Aug. 27: Gov. Blanco asks for federal state > of emergency. A federal emergency is declared giving > federal officials the authority to get involved. > > Sunday, Aug. 28: Mayor Ray Nagin orders mandatory > evacuation of New Orleans. President Bush warned of

> Weather Service predicts area will be "uninhabitable" > after Hurricane arrives. First reports of water > toppling over the levee appear in local paper. > > Monday, Aug. 29: Levee breaches and New Orleans begins

> responds to federal emergency, dispatching employees > but giving them two days to arrive on site. > > Tuesday, Aug. 30: Mass looting reported, security

> local authorities have adequate National Guard units > to handle hurricane needs despite governor's earlier > request. Bush returns to Crawford for final day of

> vacation. TV coverage is around-the-clock Hurricane > news. > > Wednesday, Aug. 31: Tens of thousands trapped in New

> Orleans including at Convention Center and Superdome > in "medieval" conditions. President Bush finally

> returns to Washington to establish a task force to > coordinate federal response. Local authorities run out

> of food and water supplies. > > Thursday, Sept. 1: New Orleans descends into anarchy.

> New Orleans Mayor issues a "Desperate SOS" to federal > government. Bush claims nobody predicted the breach of

> campaign to blame state and local officials-despite > their repeated requests for help. Bush stages a > photo-op-diverting Coast Guard helicopters and crew to

> act as backdrop for cameras. Levee repair work > orchestrated for president's visit and White House > press corps.

> > Saturday, Sept. 3: Bush blames state and local > officials. Senior administration official (possibly > Rove) caught in a lie claiming Gov. Blanco had not > declared a state of emergency or asked for help. > > Monday, Sept. 5: New Orleans officials begin to > collect their dead. > > (Adapted from: Katrina Timeline, > http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/ ) > > Those are the facts. State and local officials BEGGED > for help as people in their city suffered. The Bush > administration didn't get the job done and when their

Somehow; I believe we will end up choosing to "agree to disagree." I really don't want to offend or aggravate you but here's my take on the whole situation. Please send my response to the source of your email and see if they can refute it with genuine facts.

First of all; my unit is collecting monetary donations for the victims. However MRS BEAR and I will be donating directly to the Salvation Army. This is because part of the unit donations will be going to the Red Cross. I am unhappy with some things they have done so we are choosing to send our money where we feel it will do the most good.

TRIVIA - for the same $100 dollars; the Salvation Army provides 33 meals and the Red Cross only provides 16. Meanwhile the Red Cross charges for items the Salvation Army provides for free. In their defense the Red Cross pays its Administrators much better. The Italian Branch of the International Red Cross smuggled four wounded terrorists through US Military checkpoints in exchange for releasing an Italian Reporter (who worked for a communist publication) who was being held hostage.

I also support Air Force Aid. They do a LOT to help Airmen with unexpected financial emergencies.

I do not want federal money used to rebuild New Orleans. If they insist, I want the flood area dug out as a huge inland bay with large, high arms of land overlapping to make a channel water traffic must zig zag through to reach the bay. The New - New Orleans can be built at the far north shore of the bay. The "arms" would act to dampen surges and slow future hurricanes. Why throw good money after bad? They had thirty years to prepare after the last bad hurricane. If the insurance company has the good sense to not offer flood insurance I don't want my money to pay for some idiot who does not grasp simple concepts such as "below sea level."

The Hurricane was a tragedy. I still don't understand why the state did not ask for assistance early enough. They didn't even declare an in-state state of emergency until President Bush called Governor Blanco in a restaurant. She did not do anything until he called her and begged her to make the declaration.

I have read and heard statements from the President. I did not even once hear him try to place blame on anyone. I did hear him say it was not time to assign any blame. If I missed it please give me a link to a reliable source (Not Michael Moore).

The only blaming is coming from the left (especially Sen. Pelosi, D-CA). Both Nagin and Blanco are blaming each other. According to Nagin; when he and Bush spoke with Blanco she chose to wait 24 hours to make a decision. Obviously; President Bush could not make this decision although it occurred well after your timeline. Please ask Moveon and DU why he could not simply make this decision since they claim he was in charge of the situation. You cannot have responsibility where you do not have authority. Neither the Governor nor the Mayor of New Orleans behaved like leaders.

Also; she called an in-state state of emergency and asked for money and materials with a disaster relief request. Very good for semantics but nothing can happen until you declare a FREAKIN "DISASTER AREA!" Sorry. I lost control there for a moment. I'm better now. Really.

NAME DELETED; please research it. Gov Blanco invoked her own authority already granted to her as the Governor under Louisiana law. She refused to invoke the Federal law that passes authority to FEMA to coordinate crisis response. Legally; there was a state level emergency in Louisiana but not a federal one. Legally; she was saying the state of Louisiana was hit less hard than neighboring Mississippi. The president was forbidden, by law, to act.

Oklahoma Republican Lt Governor Fallin made a declararation of a state of emergency and placed the Oklahoma National Guard under control of FEMA. The Oklahoma National Guard who are helping are not under the control of the Louisiana Governor, thank God! CIVICS LESSON TIME: Fortunately, the federal government cannot seize control of a state. There's a two week process to remove authority from a living governor (according to the Louisiana State Constitution). When the power is legally usurped it passes to someone within the state government, usually the Lt Governor. If a President were to attempt to take authority it would be an impeachable offense (Although I'm sure Michael "Moveon" Moore would have loved it if President Bush had tried).

Even though the storm was bad enough in Mississippi to destroy Keesler Air Force Base (The mission is moving to one of the previously closed bases in Texas) they did not experience the widespread looting and lawlessness as New Orleans had. They had a plan, a good plan, and they followed it.

Also; do you believe the Bull being spread around claiming the looting was justified (your heroes are doing this)? Why did Air America, Celine Dion and Michael Moore see no problem with this lawless behavior. Please find out if they see the Rapes (including the Gang Rape of Children as young as 5 Years Old) as a type of physically intimate looting. Will you research this and get back to me?

I understand people taking food, diapers, genuine necessities. I really doubt the food left on the shelves in flood water will be edible for very long. Even canned food will lose wrappers and begin to rust. These dirt bags walked past the food and went for the Plasma TVs, expensive sneakers (sports shoes), jewelry, alcohol...

MRS BEAR and I could have easily been stationed in that area. I am getting her a pistol and a shot gun. I will be teaching her how to shoot. She will be spending enough range-time to handle her weapons safely with confidence and competence.

SUPPORTING DATA: Critics say mayor failed to follow emergency plan http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050907-101851-4549r.htm

Governor Blanco may be facing charges for forbidding the Redcross from bringing food, water and medicine into the dome. "At approximately 3:30PM Eastern time, Fox News's Major Garrett broke a blockbuster: the Red Cross had truckloads of supplies ready to go to the Superdome and the Convention Center... but Governor Blanco's Homeland Security troops ordered them not to. Why? Because if the Superdome or the Convention Center became comfortable places in the aftermath, more people would come to them, and fewer would leave. "Have we got that? Governor Blanco deliberately wanted to make the Superdome and the Convention Center uninhabitable, specifically through denial of food and clean water. I'm pretty sure that's considered a war crime in some jurisdictions. I'm dead solid certain that if we tried this tactic on armed insurgents in Iraq, the whole world would be outraged, and would demand that tribunals be convened. But Blanco not only did it to American citizens, she did it to some of the poorest, oldest, sickest, and/or blackest American citizens we have." "And while she did all that, she had the unbelievable gall to claim that the federal government was not acting in the best interests of New Orleanians." Check the Red Cross site: http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

• The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city. Louisiana repeatedly misused funds committed for the levies. Clinton had cut funding for the levies back in 98. Even if Bush had pushed for it to be reinstated the original project would not be complete until 2015. If you know anything about government projects you know that translates to sometime after 2025.

I know Michael Moore wants to "Faren-hipe" this to promote his upcoming movie about Hurricane Katrina. I'm not drinking his koolaid. By the way; did he ever settle with Ray Bradbury for misuse of intellectual property? Ray Bradbury was going to sue him because he had not granted permission for using a variation of his book title.

Why were the busses left to be flooded? I bet Michael Moore won't talk about this - A leader who knows their resources could have moved people in advance. A competent leader would have stocked food, water, medicine and appropriate support personnel at the evacuation end points. Please, Please ask your Michael Moore connections if this should have been handled at federal level.

I hope I'm not stepping over the line with the nature and length of this. I think I have learned the customs and courtesies here and I don't want to break any rules.

Incedently; I want the flood victims to get enough aid to help get themselves "established" with a job and a place to stay (along with basic needs taken care of).

I really care about the emailer. Did I answer properly?

God Bless you all!

Grizzled Bear and his Mrs

Tell your Lib friend that the President's first mission is to keep America safe - FROM OUR ENEMIES - NOT FROM THE WEATHER!!

The Left is trying to use our own words against us and some of us are falling for it. Protecting America safe from the weather IS NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

Protecting America safe from foreign enemies is.

Yeah I think you said your peace with tact. I don't know your friend, but I wouldn't be suprised if you end up in an argument that turns into personal insult.
I had a friend who e-mailed me over the abu-ghraib BS, and one thing led to another and insults are all I got in return.
Needless to say, I felt it wasn't worth wasting time being friends with a mindless liberal. Sorry, but the last thing that moron needs to be doing is send you crap like this when he knows your political views.
These MOVeON guys are going to get the rug pulled out from under them. There's no way this can stand as Bush's fault. Oh, they will try --and they are going to fall...hard.

Only the lunatic fringe blames Republicans for any of this. Last poll said only 13%.
In Florida , when a hurricane hits, the lunatics blame Jeb Bush, only because he's a Republican. If he were a democrat, it would be his brother Georges fault!
In NY state, Guliani(R) handled 9/11. The mayor!
Give the American people some credit. Not everyone is an uneducated Democrat. They know who was in charge before and after the storm. They also know who came in to save the day, and it wasn't the democrats.

You were far too kind to this moron. There is no "shifting" the blame for anything. As anyone who bothered to actually LEARN the facts instead of having their opinons dictated to them by Democrat Party front Group Moveon knows, power in this situation rests in the hands of the locals" For example when they say

The idiot in charge of FEMA didn't allow the National

Please point out that the State of Louisiana Gov, not that "idiot" at FEMA, commands the local guard units. That State Gov Blanco is the "idiot" who FINALLY sent in a bare 300 ARMED NG troops on Thursday 48 hours AFTER the Levees broke to "restore" order. Over the Weekend, the President ASKED Gov Blanco to turn control over operations in NO to the Feds and was REFUSED by the Gov. (Source Sun Sept 4 Washington Post) Ask this person also to read today's front page Washington Post story about the hundreds of millions of Army Corp of Engineer projects State of Louisiana politicians, including Sen Mary Landeru, had redirected into prok barelle projects. Again, in THE Washington Post. This person would be well advised to turn off the Movon propaganda. They DO know that is an organization run as a front group for the Democrat Party right? Same way they would label anything sent out by the Repbos as "propaganda", they should treat anything sent out by "Moveoon"

Liberals aren't worth talking to. Any fact that cannot be bent to support their worldview is discarded, denied, or avoided.
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Funny ... I just had the same argument with an old friend via email just half an hour ago. I believe we are no longer friends.
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This was with immediate family. I'm hoping we stay somewhat civil. We had a big dispute after the Tsunami. When he criticized the US response I responded with articles about the USS Lincoln Air Craft Carrier. We lost contact for a long time.

This is what I wrote in response to a post by someone on the email list ... not my friend ...

What you did Sir with your little letter was to awaken someone who knew the lies and the facts that counter those lies ... and called you on it. You ... in typical liberal fashion tried to smear me because I called you on it. You said you had to break your principles ... I submit to you SIR that you have none.

1. A freeper is a member of Free Republic. A freeper (buckhead) was responsible for detecting the Dan Rather letter fraud ... another lying letter. They are also the group who helped organize the COUNTER Cindy Sheehani protest

2. An original constitutionalist is someone who believes in the constitution as it was written and doesn't believe in the idea that it is a living document to be twisted by the lastest fad.

3. No the constitutionalists were NOT burnt at Waco though I'm sure there are those on the left that would loved to have seen it.

4. You accused me of being un-informed. I stated my references to prove otherwise. Get on Al Franken / Airhead America and I'll be glad to reciprocate your puke.

5. You will forgive me if I lose my temper when I see yet another lying liberal attempt to undermine our president, our war effort, and our country, I got BAD news for you ... there are a LOT more of us than there are of you. AND the more of this crap you put out the more of us you make, So please please ... keep it up.

6. You want to see someone certifiable .. check out your DNC head.

7. A MOONBAT is someone who believes and or perpetuates totally BULLSHIT conspiracy theories either cause they are nuts or they have a political agenda. The later does it to those who are useful idiots ... read Carl Marx

Yes, I thought you did well. I want you to know that you inspired me. Here's mine to my paper. I'm limited to 300 words, this has 299. Thank you for the inspiration!!!!!! Anyone is welcome to copy.

The feds are forbidden by law to come into an area unless REQUESTED by the Governor. FEMA is NOT a first responder. Mr. Bush called the Democratic Governor and the Mayor and begged them to evacuate on the FRIDAY BEFORE THE STORM HIT. The National Guard is controlled by the Governor. The NO disaster plan was NOT implemented. Pictures of buses which could have evacuated LA citizens are all over the internet. Red Cross and Salvation Army were denied entry into NO. Florida, Mississippi and Alabama Republican leaders asked for aid.

To avoid the debate Democrats throw racial accusations. Not one Republican Senator was the Grand PooBah of the KKK as was Byrd, the Democratic 1952 vice presidential nominee was a segregationist, the Democratic majority leader in the Senate for ten years was a Klansman.. and Leahy has said that President Bush is purposely killing blacks.

The Republican Party was on the right side of the Civil War, passed the Voter Rights Act, voted for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Eisenhower sent troops to protect nine students and federalized the Arkansas National Guard when a governor refused to ensure integration, Reagan got the MLK holiday and extended the Voting Rights Act for 25 years, and Bush appointed more blacks to high-level positions in his cabinet than any previous president, including the first black woman as secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice.

Still, somehow, Republicans and Bush are racist. Anyone who remembers relief efforts during Floyd in Grifton knows better. I, for one, will not be lectured to by liars, a former klansman on race, a party that had a segregationist as it's vice presidential nominee in 1952, a party that refused to protect nine children, or by those who gave me what I just saw on TV last week.

Great job hun!

Look, we've all got to stand up and demand to be heard.

Seriously, the Libs take our silence as cowardice, weakness or worst of all, agreement.

I blasted away yesterday on another forum where anti-Bush stuff was rampant, and it wasn't until I blasted back that the other conservatives started chiming in also.

We have got to make ourselves heard....and usually, we are the rational ones.

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