Posted on 08/08/2005 7:17:31 AM PDT by ken5050
Whoa, bud. That's liberal thinking if I ever heard it. Fact: NY fans pay for their team be it through tickets or cable fees. Why should their money have to subsidize people in Pittsburgh, Milwaukee or Minnesota who won't? Secondly, money does not guarantee the World Series. The Yankees have been there 2 out of the last four and lost, they got beat by the Angels one year in the ALDS and the Sox last year.
The Yankees are learning their lesson about buying everything in site. The passed on Beltran and wouldn't open up the budget at deadline nor would they trade the franchise future.
Yes, but the model is skewed...As a kid..every spring youa nd I believed our team..whatever it was..however bad the previous year..had a chance..Now, you have a situation when 50%+ of the teams have NO chance of ever making the playoffs..and their fans are going to start staying away...And do you think Yankee fans realy want to see, (and pay for tickets).. them play the Devil Rays 9 times..<.
Your comment about free-markets merits a serious response...and in a nutshell.major leagues today are cartels..they make their own rules..the problem is that the rules benefit the players at the expense of the fans..
Don't forget that having the Yankee or the Sox on your home schedule means extra revenue. Their fans are all over the US. In Tampa, for example, they draw small crowds. When the Yanks and Sox come to town, the games are near sell outs. That's 18 games x 20,000 tickets x $25 a ticket. That's $9 million extra for the franchise not to mention the extra concessions that get sold.
see my # 63...and to prove my point that the Yankees are a cartel component..look at what happened with the cable shut- out the last few years..Cablevision has 2 mil+ subcribers..pays YES $2.month per subcriber...thought he average Yankee rating on the system is about 250,000..Cabalevision wanted to make YES a premium channel..IOW..you only pay if you want to see the games..Yankees refused..escalating sports rights are the biggest cause of ever-inccreasing cable bills..and soon the tipping point will be reached..
no argument..but if your a KC or TB fan..you also want to feel that youre team has a chance of winning at home...and yes, I happiuly know waht the D Rays have done to the Yanks this season..GO SWEET LOU!!!
Within this group of six, here's how they rank in W-ERA-IP:
Carpenter: 1-2-1 = 4
Clemens: 6-1-5 = 12
Martinez: 4-4-4 = 12
Willis: 2-6-5 =13
Oswalt: 3-6-5 =14
Smoltz: 4-5-5 =14
That puts Carpenter way ahead. And I think he deserves the CY, but not by that much over Clemens, since Clemens is well ahead in ERA and has been deprived of wins because of weak offense. Either man would be deserving.
I've seen Carpenter pitch quite a bit this season (Clemens, too). All the players who see him say Carp has "electric stuff." And he does: diving, sinking fastballs; sharp late movement; complete command. Dominant and very efficient. Works late into the game, with a high number of complete games for this era.
Here is how I would rank them right now for the CY:
Carpenter: 16-4, 2.26, 171 IP
Clemens: 11-4, 1.38, 156 IP
Martinez: 12-3, 2.81, 157 IP
Willis: 15-7, 2.87, 156 IP
Oswalt: 14-9, 2.46, 171 IP
Smoltz: 12-6, 2.83, 168 IP
That's if the season were to end today. But of course, there's a whole lot of season left. Each of these guys could get ten more starts.
If the season ended today, no doubt. I hold my breath that the Cards sustain no more injuries. It would be a killer if Carp, or Mulder would go down. I would personally injure King if given a chance, even though he got the win yesterday. How's that for crap. Finally gets one out in relief and gets a win?
The D-Rays are cheap bastards and simply won't field more than a minor league team. However, they have some good young players and will probably do well in a few years. Tampa was probably not the best place to put a team though. Vegas would have been a much better situation.
I'm ok with a Carpenter CY, but right now tilt the scales to Clemens because a 1.38 ERA is amazing.
Thanks ken...Go Giants! :)
Carpenter: 1-2-1 = 4
Oswalt: 3-3-1 =10
Clemens: 6-1-5 = 12
Martinez: 4-4-4 = 12
Smoltz: 4-5-3 =12
Willis: 2-6-5 =13
This would move Oswalt ahead of Clemens. However, Clemens' lead in ERA outweighs the difference in IP. Also, Oswalt has the most losses of this bunch.
So right now I still say it's between Carp and Clemens, and I give the edge to Carp.
No doubt? Homerism baloney. And I say that as someone who believes that Carpenter is a complete class act (I know his aunt, a wonderful lady from a good family) and conversely don't like Clemens because of his attitude. But there is a huge difference between a 1.38 and a 2.26 ERA. Huge.
Like I said, I'm ok with Carpenter winning, but no way should he be a slam dunk or significant favorite. If anything Clemens should have the edge, all things considered.
Clemens: 11-4, 1.38, 156 IP
Clemens doesn't have as many innings pitched. When he gets to 171, let's see what his ERA is.
MLB is a protected business, not a free market.
The number of fans in the stands does not (especially for the Yanks) equate with the amount of money they can spend on players. TV and Radio bring much more money than attendence ever could. Wanna put it on a fair basis (and I do not advocate this), allow the teams to only spend attendence money on salaries.
If MLB were allowed to be a 'free market', then we would only have teams in LA, SF, NY, Houston, Dallas, Boston etc. Boy that would be fun watching LA and the Yanks play the series year after year. Hey we won 20 World Series in a row... but there are only 6 teams.
The owners and the players both have screwed the financial end of the game up. Now we have the 'new ballparks' which cater to the high rollers (luxury boxes), the ordinary fan cannot buy a good seat in the good markets. Try to buy a seat at Bush other than the upper decks. I used to be able to buy Lodge Reserved seats, pretty good seats for about $12-$15. Now they are $29 and they are all held by corporations. Every seat in the lower decks are season ticket holders, and 95% of those are corporate purchases. Hell they even reduced the bleacher seats a few years ago. The NEW BUSH STADIUM will have fewer seats than the existing one. Think the owners have the ordinary joe fan in mind?
Welcome to the thread Charles
I see your mouth move - but I don't hear a thing you are saying!
I was born and raised a Yankee fan - Once my family emigrated from Europe - they settled in the NY-Metro Area and fell in love with the Yanks. It was part of the pride of being an American.
To hear this anti-Yankee crap from you every week - seems down right unAmerican to me. But, that's just me.
Perhaps if you were just a positive Boston or Mets fan and not such an ANTI-Yanks person - you would be more palatable. ;-)
DD
LOL, nice try, the difference in innings is just 9%.
For Clemens to reach Carpenter's current ERA at 171 innings, he'd have to give up 19 runs in his next 15 innings, (an 11.4 ERA). So far he's given up just 24 in 156, vs. Carpenter's 43 in 171.
But we shall see...
And he'd have to get five wins in his next fifteen innings to match Carpenter. :-)
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