Posted on 08/03/2005 8:34:12 AM PDT by newgeezer
Rick Sutcliffe, the star pitcher for the Chicago Cubs in the late 1980s, recalls the day that teammate Rafael Palmeiro, a first baseman-outfielder, was on his way out of Chicago."It was (general manager) Jim Frey and (manager) Don Zimmer who both said, 'This guy will never hit for power,' " Sutcliffe recalled. "I remember a situation where there was a man at first and nobody out. Zimmer's big deal was to pull the ball as a lefthanded hitter. A base hit to right and you go first to third. A base hit to left, you only go first to second. So, 'Raffy' comes up and singles to left as good as you've ever seen, and it's first and second. Zimmer was so mad, I thought he was going to pinch-run for him."
That day in 1988, it was decided that the Cubs would keep lefthanded-hitting Mark Grace, whom they thought would hit for more power than Palmeiro, and trade Palmeiro, which they did in the offseason of 1988. That year, Palmeiro had hit only eight homers in 580 at-bats for the Cubs. Grace had seven in 486 at-bats.
Palmeiro, who even had named his dog "Wrigley" in honor of Wrigley Field, desperately wanted to remain a Cub and called Sutcliffe, whom he presumed had considerable influence in the organization.
"He said, 'Tell (Cubs management) I promise I will hit for power. Tell them to please don't trade me,'" said Sutcliffe, now an ESPN analyst who was in town this week.
"I called Frey and said, 'I believe this guy. He says he's going to hit for power. Let's hang on to him.' But obviously, they traded him."
(Excerpt) Read more at stltoday.com ...
That's because Babe Ruth started out as pitcher. Check his stats and you will find that he became a legitimate slugger at about the same time he became a regular position player. And while you are at it, check out the career stats for Aaron, Mays, Robinson, and Jackson. All of these guys were legitimate sluggers from their first full year as a starting player in the majors.
His career is not comparable with Palmeiro's. Giambi's first year was '95, and it's understandable that he had a couple of (relatively) mediocre seasons in his early 20s before he got going. Raffy, otoh, spent around a decade in the majors before putting up the big #s.
Palmeiro hit 41 doubles in 1988, so he had power from the start, just not big home run power. Steroids turn warning track outs into 5th row home runs. Now I'm wondering about Edgar Martinez, who went from a doubles gap-hitter into a 25+ home run guy in the mid 1990's. This steroid thing is casting a shadow on everyone.
Canseco said he shot him up Palmeiro until he learned how to do it himself..
baseball ping
Say it ain't so!
I just checked edgar's stats, and he did increase his homers in the mid 90's, but not in a real dramatic way. he went from 14-24 a year to 25-35. And he always had a ton of doubles, so the home run increase might just be from honing his skills and maybe pumping a little iron.
retired in 2002. Had 50 HR's in 1996 out of nowhere.
Babe Ruth was a starting pitcher in his first few years, meaning he was in the line-up only every 4th or 5th day, so he didn't get a lot of at-bats.
I think people totally miss the point of banning steroids. It is the detrimental effects they have on your health, not the fact that it makes you stronger "artificially". I wouldn't have a problem with anyone using steroids AT ALL if there was no downside to using them, but the testimony of Steve Courson, ex-Steeler, before Congress about steroids and the devastating effect they had on his health -- and then, of course, Lyle Alzado -- convinced me that steroid use is truly bad news. Then there's the psychiatric effects of 'roid raging and all that that causes users to go nuts and get themselves in trouble.
But if you could find some super-food that had the same positive effects on strength and speed and overall health as steroids with ZERO negative effects, not only would I favor athletes eating it, wouldn't any member of the general population have to be a fool not to eat it?
Anyone who chooses one diet over another to gain strength, lose weight, etc., is chemically altering their body just like a steroid user. The difference is the effect isn't as immediate or as great and the long term health effects are all positive. But do we put an asterisk next to the name of players who eat a lot of fruits and vegetables? No, because they're not breaking any rules.
Steroids are wrong to use because not only are they so destructive to your health, they make you a danger to others around you, which is why they are banned. But if someone ever invents a truly safe steroid (unlikely) with no negative side effects or some other safe drug or superfood that has such an effect on strength and performance, I say everybody -- athlete or not -- go for it.
I wonder if all the hot dogs Babe Ruth ate contained steroids?
Many people believe that MLB tried to inject (as it were) some more power into the game (and thus win back their fans) right after the '94 strike by juicing up the baseball itself. ....and considering that nearly everyone's power numbers received a big post-strike boost I'm inclined to believe that theory.
And when you add steroids into the equation records were bound to fall. (McGwire, Bonds. .....70 HRs, 73 HRs).
Maybe he was drinking Burbonoids.
The rumor around town is that Giambi is taking human growth hormones that are only detectable by a blood test, which is not allowed under the collective bargaining agreement (the CBA only allows pee tests). Note, however, that I first heard the rumor from a wacko Red Sox fan, so take it for what its worth.
Why are you so certain that this is a "steroidless" Giambi? Has he done anything to earn that consideration?
Raffy, otoh, spent around a decade in the majors before putting up the big #s.
The big difference with Palmeiro is that he was a good contact hitter for most of his earlier career -- he just didn't put up big power numbers. Before 1993 he was a career .295 hitter with career highs of 26 home runs and 89 RBIs. He hit 37 home runs that year and drove in 100+ runs, and he's been a power machine ever since then. His batting average has declined considerably in the last few years, though.
If Tony Gwynn had been on steroids I suppose he would have batted .500 with 60 hrs and maybe even grown an inch or two.
Giambi lost a lot of muscle mass in a very short period time (last year) shortly after the steroid rumors pointed in his direction. ...and his numbers suffered accordingly. His case was so obvious that he was booed heartily in every ballpark he visited.
But the 2nd half of this year his numbers have started to pick up. ....and he's still not close to the size he was earlier in his career.
Yeah, Raffy was always an excellent hitter. Too bad he had to resort to the juice.
Now, I just can't get into it. I still read the books and listen to old broadcasts from the 40's, 50's and 60's but I can't watch todays game.
Time was, you could relate to a ballplayer, they looked like everyday people. Now they have necks the size of my thigh and thighs the size of tree trunks. II just can't enjoy the game as played by a bunch of tweaked out gorillas.
Bill Melton, a 3rd baseman and slugger for the ChiSox in the 60s, 70s, made an interesting observation on the radio over the week-end:
He stated that their were numerous hitters in his day who routinely hit the ball to the warning track for outs. With a little help from a steroid, these same players were now home-run machines gaining fame and fortune. The temptation was enormous.
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