Posted on 06/24/2005 7:13:06 AM PDT by hispanichoosier
I need help with LOTR. Two friends and I were discussing the books and movies last weekend. Friend 1 observed that the relationship between Frodo and Sam (in the movies) had homosexual overtones. Friend 2 retorted that the relationship is based on the master/servant relationship of old England and that Friend 1 was looking at it through American eyes, where rugged individualism is more prized. I--caught in the middle--had to admit that I thought that Sean Astin overplayed Sam at times but was great overall.
So, was Friend 1 right about the gay overtones, or was Friend 2's explanation correct? I'm rather at a loss over the whole debacle.
What was wrong with Haldir?
I am so out of it in so many ways!!! (too niave also, I guess).. have a good one.. lots work here & then pooch walk with my friend & his two dogs before the "week-end" stuff commences
Good point.
if you had read the books you would have known that they are merely friends..as master and servant nothing more.
If you read the books, you'll see Sam was not overplayed, and the books have ZERO - NADA - homosexual tones of any kind.
When I was a teenageer and young adult, I read and re-read LOTR numerous times. Drew maps. Learned runes. The whole thing, could recite parts of the books.
Have the extended versions of the movie.
IMO, Frodo was miscast. In the book, he was not a squeamish, delicate youth. He was a stolid man of 50.
Aragorn was also miserably miscast. Mr. "No Blood for Oil" was not kingly. Theoden was kingly. Mr. "No Blood"s eyes are too close together, his voice not commanding, his presence too self absorbed, and his persona more of a loser/loner than a descendent of the line of kings. Especially his voice was bad.
Just a couple of thoughts.
At least Samwise never took Frodo's car keys away from him when Frodo started to display self-destructive behavior. That would definitely have sexual overtones which would (in my humble opinion) require some overzealous prosecutor to charge Samwise with battery.
Tolkien, a committed Roman Catholic, would have abominated the suggestion.
Ian McKellan who, sadly, is homosexual, said fairly emphatically that no homosexuality was implied in Frodo and Sam's relationship.
It seemed to me that he just made up a character and gave it the name "Haldir," in order to fit into scenes that were also made up. Bad taste, imo.
And Aragorn was considerably weaker than the character in the book ... modern, conflicted, and all that.
I'll concede that Aragorn was more "modern and conflicted" in the movies... but there was self doubt in the book that was part of his character, even if it was expressed differently.
I don't get complaints with Haldir though... In his scenes at Lothlorien, his lines and attitude seem right out of the book. The only major deviation I can see is the plotline deviation that brought him to Helm's Deep. Is that what you two mean?
That's what I mean, yes.
But compared to Viggo "The Lights Are On But Nobody's Home" Mortenson, the Aragon character is the second coming of Robert E. Lee. I was just boggled by the interviews I saw; you could practically see in his eyes and out his ears.
(/trashy celeb bashing)
OK - Well, I'd catagorize that as a PJ/writers complaint and not a complaint about the way the character was played.
I know it didn't happen, but I liked it as film. It was a cool moment, those guys showing up. ;~D
Because homosexual men are so narcissistic. EVERYTHING has to be about THEM! They just dominate the attitudes about male relationships, so those that are strictly NON-sexual are tainted with those attitudes.
In my case, it's that there's a difference between being noble, rather proud, and suspicous of outsiders...and just being a snoot.
Movie Haldir was a snoot.
Bringing elves to Helm's Deep wasn't in the books, but it didn't bother me as much as it maybe should. ;-)
No, not a complaint about the acting at all. The acting was overwhelmingly excellent, in the context of the script.
;o)
I like that part...
Though I do like the book Sam more than movie Sam, even though Sean Astin wasn't bad.
He does tend to talk quietly without moving his mouth.
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