Aside from Eaker......the original tool !
Posted on 06/11/2005 10:01:31 AM PDT by 95ssimpala
Has anyone shot the Auto-ordinance M1 carbine? I want a shooter more than a collector’s item and a grand for a Fulton Armory rebuild is a little much. Shopping around most of the decent GI carbine I’ve seen run around the same price as a new one. I’ve read mixed reviews of other Auto-ordinance products before they were taken over by Khar and none on the carbine. I would like to know about accuracy, reliability, and GI parts interchangeability.
Our school library had "Karamojo Safari" and I read it in high school. Have read quite a bit about him since.
Bell primarily used the 6.5 Mannlicher Schoenauer (unsure of the spelling) and .275 Rigby (7mm Mauser). He used the long parallel sided round nose fmj bullets because he thought penetration was the most important thing in killing elephants and other large game.
I have some of those old type bullets in 6.5 Swedish Mauser and their penetration is astounding. They will shoot right through a large (very large) tree trunk.
That's what I was thinking. I've been thinking about building another one lately, but they take a LONG time to build correctly.
NiMH is a bit of a priss, he doesn't like getting wet, doesn't like snow, and hates mud.
(Though he'll roll in sand, dust, and muddy sand..)
He thinks we control the weather, and will go from front door to back door in the belief that the weather will change between the two.
And, because he feels we are funny looking if defective cats, he'll bring home a live bunny for us to practice our hunting skills on.
The female bobcat is pretty aloof, she doens't hang around much, but when she does she drives the dogs crazy.
I accidentally scared her once, and normally that means buzz-claws of doom when you are within 5 foot of distance, but she merely looked at me and took off.
LOL, aggressive kids chasing down people to turn green..
I could be wrong but it sticks in my mind that he liked the .375H&H.
Not the first time I ran afoul of a bobcat, but it was the least terrifying.
First time around, the bobcats kittens decided to run up to me to see what I was.
Momma was nearby, and thought I was a threat.
I got chased for a good distance by momma AND her kittens.
Embarrassing.
She gave up the chase as soon as I was 'far enough away', but I stayed FAR away from that trail for awhile.
Coyotes here as well, they have been ganging up on and eating pets.
And the over population of bear means that pets are being preyed on by two different critters.
The coyotes here start making noise, and NiMH makes a beeline for home.
I usually keep two clips loaded for my .22, not that in teh dark that will do much to the coyotes while they're trying to eat my cat.
Still find it galling that they were thinking of PROTECTING the coyotes in my area.
Envirowackies had them 'introduced' to the area to 'control' the deer population.
Coyotes took one look at the deer and said "no way."
Aside from Eaker......the original tool !
Can't have enough M1A's........:o)
There are a number of reasons for wanting to own an M1 Carbine. Target shooting at 500 yards, hunting bears, and serious social work don't qualify. But it is an interesting little gadget with a lot of history in it. It's a great plinking gun, and a good step up from a .22 for a kid interested in military weapons. I have owned several M1 and one paratrooper M1A1, and am old enough to have had military training on the M1 and M2 (it was obsolete but still used by some foreign countries... indeed it may still be, I used to run into them in South America and the Caribbean but haven't been back to that area since 9/11 for obvious reasons).
It was never supposed to be a battle rifle. The USA in 1941 had three good ones, which is two more than most nations in the war had, and three more than Russia did. (The 1903, M1 Garand, and M1941 Johnson). It was meant as a last-ditch defensive longarm for men who served crew-served weapons (artillerymen, machine gunners), or soldiers whose primary duty was serving a crew wasn't fighting -- commanders, or radio operators, or truck drivers, that kind of thing. The average FR gun nut carries his gun from his pickup to the range bench (or from the gun safe to the couch). The average soldier carries his weapon every-damn-where. The five- or six-pound difference between the weight of a loaded carbine and one of those rifles is huge to someone who actually carries the weapon.
Is it less effective than newer weapons that replaced it? Well, duh. But it still has a lot of history behind it and I still know American vets who carried it and swear by it.
As far as reliability goes, any clean carbine made of original parts should function flawlessly. A new-manufacture weapon that's CNC machined (like Kahr's) may benefit from a search for burrs and stress risers. Beware of surplus parts of unknown provenance -- the Chinese Communists captured thousands of carbines and facilities for making them, and if their parts it's just blind luck, and they're not marked: "Crummy Part Made By Chinese SLave Labour" or anything.
There were several civil makers of M1 carbines between the war and today, including Johnson Automatics (who necked the cartridge down to 5.7mm!), Plainfield, Universal and probably some others. Most of them were made of GI parts or from GI tooling EXCEPT the Universal. Despite the name, the parts don't universally interchange. I believe from the way that Kahr does things, that they are not using anybody's old tooling, but you would be well advised to check. If they have the Universal tooling, suck it up and buy an original carbine instead.
I recently looked at some Kahr Thompsons and was impressed. (I'm kind of a Thompson fan; talk about fun to shoot, and yeah, they still taught that in weapons school in the eighties, too). The QC on the old Numrich ones was, in a word, awful; the Kahr ones were better made and better finished. If the carbine is made like that you can be proud of it.
Surplus carbines used to be dirt cheap, but as the demand continues to grow thanks to collectors, reenactors, and regular gun culture types, the prices keep going up with no let-up. Be advised that a decent wartime carbine will likely appreciate, whereas the Kahr is going to depreciate some -- that's just the way it is. Imagine how the guy who's been holding onto a Universal since 1966 feels (his hasn't appreciated either).
Dumb trade department: over twenty years ago the only legal semi-auto AKs in the country were one batch from Steyr (that were actually made in Egypt). It was a typical, crude, Russian AK (made on Russian tooling, but with some parts even cruder -- imagine Russian supervision, Arab workforce - yikes). They sold for $2500, an unbelievable sum circa 1980, but the batch had sold out. My buddy had one and coveted my airborne carbine, so I swopped my M1A1 for the Maadi/Steyr even-up. Wanna guess what has happened to the value of the two guns since? Anybody want to trade an M1A1 for an Egyptian AK? : : : (sound of crickets) : : :
In 2002 and 2003 I saw more Egyptian AKs than I could shake a stick at, and you know what? They had a reputation as junk with the Afghans as well. If the Afghan Army guys saw the Arabic writing "Misr" on the receiver, which is Arabic for Egypt (the letters used for writing Dari and Pushtu are almost the same as Arabic letters), they would throw that gun in the scrap pile without bothering to function check it.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Just spoke to one of my friends who just bought one. He's put 50 rounds through it...no problems.
My friend bought one and found out it was of shoddy quality. He then traded it back and added a couple hundred extra dollars to the person he bought it from for a Hungarian AK-47 I think. Egyptian AK-47 rifles are not top of the line AK rifles.
I think I made it pretty clear I concur. Even with Steyr selecting them. The one I have is perfectly functional (and more closely resembles a Soviet AK than many others) but the finish is extremely crude.
I would not want one.
Like I said, at the time you could only get one of a very few (I believe there are three) pre-1968 Class III weapons, or one of this one batch of semi-autos from Steyr, or a Valmet. (I have owned several Valmets and still have one -- exact opposite of the Egyptian piece in quality). The Valmet does not closely resemble a Soviet AK.
You should hear the prices I paid for two SKSs that guys I knew brought back from Vietnam. Of course, at the time, who knew that in about 1985 the Chinese would start shipping their entire production over here? Or that in 1990 or so the Eastern Europeans would get into the game? Until 1985 or so, a legal AK was an extreme rarity and an SKS almost as much of one.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
I am assuming it's street legal, right?
In re-reading Karamojo Bell, we note again his predilection for the 7x57 cartridge. He did a lot of elephants with the delightful little 1903 6.5 carbine from Mannlicher, but he preferred the 7 when he could get it.
I too remember when they were really expensive. I traded for one after the price had come down but at the time it was still too high for the quality. I actually came close to trading even with a guy for one of those Valmets. He seemed to want to do it but just couldn't quite make up his mind.
Unbelieveably, at the time, the Valmets were cheaper.
I have owned three .22 rifles which were stamped "made in Egypt" and they were not just good, but great shooters. One of them would keep all shots within a quarter inch at 50 yards and it seemed to shoot well with any brand. I do suspect they were actually made by CZ and finished in Egypt as one had the CZ stamp on it.
There is a cheap Egyptian 9mm which I absolutely love. It is the Helwan. I have owned maybe half a dozen and they were all good. The finish is not that good but they are well made where they need to be. I have even noted a slight reddish discoloration where the slides were hardened around the cut outs for the locking bars.
Part of the reason I like them is they fit my hand well. Also they have been 100% reliable and as accurate as any. I also like the mag release on the lower grip as is is more secure and less likely to be accidentally released. I am not going to be doing any quick mag changes anyway. Of course it is actually the Beretta model 1951 Brigadier which I always wanted as a kid but couldn't afford.
I always enjoy reading Cooper. His statements about Bell agree completely with my recall from reading his book, and articles about him.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.