Posted on 01/11/2005 6:18:33 PM PST by malakhi
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I was asking what you believed. The idea that the Holy Spirit departs the earth after the rapture was a new one to me. I'd never heard it stated before and was wondering what y'all thought it meant. You see, I don't think it's possible for anyone to be moved to repentence without the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
SD
No and no. My main objection to the rapture is that it is a theological novelty without any basis in traditional belief. I already stated that the idea is antithetical to the Christian economy wherein suffering is to be expected for Jesus' followers as they take up their own crosses. To expect to be "whisked away" before trouble comes is to completely miss the point of Jesus coming to earth to suffer with us. If He was not spared, why would we think we would be?
And finally, as I just said, I don't believe anyone can be moved to repent without the prompting of the Holy Spirit. So if He is gone, there would be no "truly repentent person" for God to refuse. So if the Holy Spirit departs after the rapture, and never returns, all remaining people would be damned.
SD
No, but she's very close. We decided to have her start kindergarten next year. She went to 2 day preschool last year, and did well. I'd rather keep her with the kids she's been going to school with, than bump her ahead unnecessarily.
For some reason I can't copy. I agree about what you said about the Holy Spirit.
Did you see the letter from Univ. of North Dakota's president?
SD
No. Got link?
What about all the prior years that Christians have lived and died in peace having no more trials or tribulations then the unbelievers of the world. Is God suddenly going to require suffering because the end is at hand?
Did Noah and his family suffer prior to the rain?
Did Lot and his family suffer before the end of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Paul said we have been crucified with Christ. What more is required?
For some people their whole life is filled with pain and suffering. Will they too have to suffer even more along with those who have skated through life with relative ease? That makes no sense to me.
And finally, as I just said, I don't believe anyone can be moved to repent without the prompting of the Holy Spirit. So if He is gone, there would be no "truly repentent person" for God to refuse. So if the Holy Spirit departs after the rapture, and never returns, all remaining people would be damned.
The Holy Spirit comes to us as a result of believing, not before.
Eph 1: 13. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Acts 8:12. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
V-14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
V-15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
V-16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
V-17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
This makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is given to us after we turn our thinking around, not before.
With Gods Spirit gone from the earth--- some men will still turn to God on their own when they remember the scriptures that had prophesied the things that are taking place in their present world.
They will be martyred for their convictions and new belief, and when they are resurrected then they will be given Gods Spirit.
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:V-21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Notice “yet repented not-----“ If they had repented----what then? Who are those who did repent during these days and what happened to them?
Do you have scripture that points to anything else?
Jin H
Help. Is there a question in here for me? :')
I included you because you were the first to get involved in the subject.
You said that you agreed with SD, do you still see it that way?
Jim H
A Rapture? I believe this will happen. I just disagree with some on when.
Will the Holy Spirit leave ? Yes, He leaves but define leaves. Does he physically leave the world or leaves the unsaved?
Will some be saved during the Tribulation? Yeah. The bible says so.
How will this happen? I don't know. I'm still studying. Throw you scripture out here to back up saved first, Holy Spirit later and let's look at it.
How will this happen? I don't know. I'm still studying. Throw you scripture out here to back up saved first, Holy Spirit later and let's look at it.
Did you read my post 3,548? I thought it was plenty clear that we are saved, then the Holy Spirit comes to us. Did you read that differently?
I have no proof of how God will handle it during the tribulation period, but my guess is that when a person decides their willing to die for their belief, they are at that point saved, or when their martyred.
The difference is they won't have the Holy Spirit to help them through the trials, it will be done largely by their own will power, because they know it's their only means of salvation.
They will probably bond together like the early church and help each other through it.
Jim H
I just noticed this, do you have doubts whether it's Pre, Mid, or Post?
Jim H
Interesting. That sounds kind of like salvation by works though. I have to do some reading.
We studied this tonight. The preacher believes at the end of chapter 3. Which would be pre. I have always leaned to early. I guess it doesn't make any difference though.
Yes it does, doesn't it?
Didn't they lose the opportunity to be saved by grace when they rejected God before His Spirit left?
When a martyred person decides he must die for what he believes in--is that considered works? If so--a lot of people in the past died doing their works, huh?
Jim H
Someone pointed out that in 1 Thess 4:18, Paul told the church to comfort one another with these words.
If you were in the midst of the tribulations, or even farther in, how could these words comfort us?
If we were one month into them, then we would be discomforted wondering how far we had to go through them.
God promised His believers that His Spirit would never leave us, therefore if His Spirit is taken out, then we must not be here.
Jim H
Yeah, that's what I'm hearing. I guess I've been pre but calling it early because of scripture about things that will happen which willbe/is insignificant compared to the tribulation. When the HS gone we will be too.
The other probably isn't that hard to understand after you get past what happens in the pre Trib which is, we accept Christ and are filled with the Holy Spirit. God says "who so ever believeth" so I trust and know that He has a plan .
Night
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