Becky
Posted on 01/11/2005 6:18:33 PM PST by malakhi
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After a nine month hiatus, The Neverending Story, the granddaddy of daily threads, has returned to Free Republic. Originally begun on March 24, 2001, as a religious discussion thread, the NES evolved over time into a daily thread spanning a wide variety of topics. The new and improved Neverending Story will feature conversation on religion, politics, culture, current events, business, sports, family, hobbies, general fellowship and more. We welcome you to hang your hat in our little corner of FR. We ask you to abide by the FR posting rules and, even in the midst of serious debate, to keep the discussion friendly and respectful. Those who wish to "duke it out" are asked to take it over to the Smoky Backroom. I placed this thread in "General/Chat" for a reason, so play nice and have fun! :o)
Oh, okay. :o)
Becky
Hi Jim, good to see you:)
Becky
LOL. Noah might disagree with you.
Becky
Those pictures are great! I hope you aren't teaching him how to ride that thing. ;o)
Well maybe next summer then.
Thanks:). He can't quite pedal it yet, but was having a blast dumping his blocks out of the bucket. Everytime he'd do it he'd clap for himself and wouldn't stop till all of us had clapped for him too:) He's really getting to the age where he is fun to watch.
How's your two? Have they started back to school yet? Is Adrainne in school yet? Jenny's step son is living with them this year and he started back last week.
Becky
The Holy Spirit is removed with the rapture? So those left behind have no hope of attaining salvation?
SD
Removed as in taken out of the way. When that happens all hell breaks loose. Some people believe at that point it's too late. There is scripture to support that but there is also scripture that there will be believers and some people will be saved. What's your thoughts on this? How do you see the two correlating?
The Catholic New American Bible has much to say about this chapter, though no definitive explanation is given. It seems to me, in context, that Paul is speaking of confusion to come as his message is twisted and misused by false prophets.
1 [1-17] The Thessalonians have been shaken by a message purporting to come from Paul himself that the day of the Lord is already present. He warns against this deception in eschatology by citing a scenario of events that must first occur (2 Thes 2:3-12) before the end will come. The overall point Paul makes is the need to reject such lies as Satan sends; he also reaffirms the Thessalonians in their calling (2 Thes 2:13-14). They are to uphold what Paul himself has taught (2 Thes 2:15). There is a concluding prayer for their strengthening (2 Thes 2:16-17). As in 2 Thes 1:8-10, the Old Testament provides a good deal of coloring; cf especially Isaiah 14:13-14; 66:15, 18-21; Ezekiel 28:2-9; Daniel 11:36-37. The contents of 2 Thes 2:3b-8 may come from a previously existing apocalypse. The details have been variously interpreted. An alternative to the possibilities noted below understands that an oracular utterance, supposedly coming from a prophetic spirit (2 Thes 2:2-3a), has so disrupted the community's thinking that its effects may be compared to those of the mania connected with the worship of the Greek god Dionysus. On this view, the writer seems to allude in 2 Thes 2:6-8 to Dionysiac "seizure," although, of course, ironically, somewhat as Paul alludes to witchcraft ("an evil eye") in Gal 3:1 in speaking of the threat to faith posed by those disturbing the Galatians (Gal 1:6-7; 5:10b). On this view of 2 Thes 2:2, the Greek participles katechon (rendered above as what is restraining) and katechon (the one who restrains) are to be translated "the seizing power" in 2 Thes 2:6 and "the seizer" in 2 Thes 2:7. They then allude to a pseudocharismatic force or spirit of Dionysiac character that has suddenly taken hold of the Thessalonian community (see 2 Thes 2:2). The addressees know (2 Thes 2:6) this force or spirit because of the problem it is causing. This pseudocharismatic force or spirit is a kind of anticipation and advance proof of the ultimate, climactic figure (the lawless one or the rebel, 2 Thes 2:3), of which the community has been warned (see the note on 1 Thes 3:3). It is, however, only the beginning of the end that the latter's manifestation entails; the end is not yet. For in the course of the mystery of lawlessness (2 Thes 2:7), false prophetism, after it ceases in the Thessalonian community, will be manifested in the world at large (2 Thes 2:8-12), where it will also be eliminated in turn by the Lord Jesus.
2 [2] "Spirit": a Spirit-inspired utterance or ecstatic revelation. An oral statement: literally, a "word" or pronouncement, not necessarily of ecstatic origin. A letter allegedly sent by us: possibly a forged letter, so that Paul calls attention in 2 Thes 3:17 to his practice of concluding a genuine letter with a summary note or greeting in his own hand, as at Gal 6:11-18 and elsewhere.
5 [6-7] What is restraining . . . the one who restrains: neuter and masculine, respectively, of a force and person holding back the lawless one. The Thessalonians know what is meant (2 Thes 2:6), but the terms, seemingly found only in this passage and in writings dependent on it, have been variously interpreted. Traditionally, 2 Thes 2:6 has been applied to the Roman empire and 2 Thes 2:7 to the Roman emperor (in Paul's day, Nero) as bulwarks holding back chaos (cf Romans 13:1-7). A second interpretation suggests that cosmic or angelic powers are binding Satan (2 Thes 2:9) and so restraining him; some relate this to an anti-Christ figure (1 John 2:18) or to Michael the archangel (Rev 12:7-9; 20:1-3). A more recent view suggests that it is the preaching of the Christian gospel that restrains the end, for in God's plan the end cannot come until the gospel is preached to all nations (Mark 13:10); in that case, Paul as missionary preacher par excellence is "the one who restrains," whose removal (death) will bring the end (2 Thes 2:7). On the alternative view (see the note on 2 Thes 2:1-17), the phrases should be referred to that which and to him who seizes (a prophet) in ecstasy so as to have him speak pseudo-oracles.
6 [7-12] The lawless one and the one who restrains are involved in an activity or process, the mystery of lawlessness, behind which Satan stands (2 Thes 2:9). The action of the Lord [Jesus] in overcoming the lawless one is described in Old Testament language (with the breath of his mouth; cf Isaiah 11:4; Job 4:9; Rev 19:15). His coming is literally the Lord's "parousia." The biblical concept of the "holy war," eschatologically conceived, may underlie the imagery.
SD
Key phrase. IOW's they don't know anymore then we do.
BigMack
You old dog. :)
BigMack
Exactly. There are different theories.
SD
Have you showed him how grandmaw drives the bobcat? ;o)
How's your two? Have they started back to school yet? Is Adrainne in school yet?
They are both doing well. Adrienne had her 5th birthday this month. She'll be going to preschool three half-days this fall. Gavin will be in second grade. They don't start back at school until September 7th.
Missed the cutoff for Kindergarten? This is Sarah's last year of "freedom."
SD
I don't believe in a "rapture."
Huh. Well, I guess that answers your question then:')
I don't believe in a "rapture."
Are you saying that because the Rapture is thought to end any chances for those going into the tribulation from ever being saved, therefore the Rapture can't be true-- because God would never refuse a truly repentant person?
Is that your main objection to dismissing the Rapture?
Jim H
You believe in the Rapture?
Hahaha, funny you should ask. I always hoped it was true, but had my doubts until recently when I began really looking into it and finding some good arguments for it.
I never felt it mattered if I believed it or not --- because If it was true. I'd go whether I believed it or not. Then on the other hand I felt I should be prepared in case we do go into some or all of the Tribulation period.
I still am prepared for anything, but it looks more and more like Paul believed it--- so why shouldn't I. :)
Jim H
:') I'm studying Revelations in my Bible study class right now. Fascinating material. We just finished with the churches. I had always thought that Christ was discussing a problem with each one but this can also be carried over to our churches today too and if we have one or all of the problems He tells what will happen.
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