Posted on 12/23/2004 9:03:18 PM PST by Jaysun
Any help that you guys can provide in identifying this little revolver would be greatly appreciated. I can provide additional pictures if anyone feels that may be helpful. Here’s what we know about the gun:
My uncle found this gun in the wall of a house that was being torn down in Waco, Texas. The house was believed to be about 50 years old at the time, which makes the pistol around 100 years old (assuming it was placed there when the house was built). Other than that, I have no other history on the gun.
It’s a 7 shot and the caliber appears to accommodate .22 short rounds. The barrel is 5.5” long. The gun is marked with a factory number 110298 on the frame at the front side of the grip. The two-piece wooden grip has the number 298 on each piece. The cylinder has the number 98 on it. The words “SCOUT MODEL” are on the top of the pistol as shown in the picture. There are no other markings. This gun feels very small in the hand; the trigger is pretty close to the grip.
It looks like it could be a Colt to me, but I can’t find an exact match. Some have speculated that it might have been issued to a Texas Ranger, but that’s just wishful thinking so far. I have a sizable number of antique guns and this is the only one we can’t identify. Thanks again for your help and comments.
-Jaysun
It's a .22 short, seven shot. I'd also add that the chamber rolls freely when the hammer isn't cocked.
It could be an Iver Johnson. Are there no marks on the barrel or receiver?
I tend to think it is an Iver Johnson.
The two things that make me think this was a gun manufactured for a catalog store are the model designation and the lack of a maker's name. Often Sears and Wards sold items that they serviced. The manufacturer's name was not on it because they were sold at a discount to the reseller because the manufacturer was not "on the hook" for service.
The reseller could sell the gun slightly less expensively than the brand name gun.
There is also the possiblity the gun is a "prototype" for a model that was never released. These guns do turn up occasionally. Many years ago I brokered a collection that contained an 1875 Remington S.A. revolver that lacked serial numbers and maker's name, but did have a drawer number and factory inspector's marks. It was unfinished in the white (no bluing). I researched the gun and learned it was the "PATENT MODEL" for the 1875 Remington Revolver which had disappeared from the US Patent Office many years before.
Other guns that lack proper marking are "lunch box guns" that were carried out of the factory before completion by dishonest employees. I have seen several of these. Usually, though, it is the serial numbers that are missing as the factory kept very good records of each gun, its serial number, and drawer number. Barrels with makers names were "rolled" before the barrel was joined to the gun or put in the drawer with the frame for fitting. It would be difficult to roll the barrel after fitting. "Lunch box guns" were usually grabbed before the serial number was applied to the parts.
In the same collection with that Remington was a 5 1/2" BBl .45 Colt Single Action in absolutely brand new condition. It lacked ALL serial numbers, had the proper Colt name on the barrel, but no drawer number or factory inspector's marks. What it DID have were authentic Springfield Armory U.S. Military inspectors cartouches!
The owner's story about the gun was that he had first seen it in the 1940s. A friend of his had a double holster rig with a matched set of TWO of these un-serial numbered Colts. In the 1950s the owner had given him one of the two guns. He also promissed him the other at his death (they were very good friends). When the friend died in the 1960s, his widow called to say that she could not fulfill the wishes her husband had put in his will that his friend get the second gun and holster rig. When she went to get them from his office they were gone.
I researched the remaining gun. Colt claimed it could not exist, let alone two. They swore they were extemely careful with serial numbers. The guns configuration (black powder) and frame styles indicated it was probably made between 1889 and 1894. What I learned after several months of delving, was that Colt DID NOT ASSEMBLE this gun... but it was in all respects an authentic Colt Single Action Revolver!
What I found and documented was that In 1891, the Colt Factory accidentally shipped six UNSERIALIZED Single Action frames to the Springfield Armory. The Colt factory attempted to retrieve them but the Armory refused to return the frames.
The Armory's gunsmiths assembled TWO Colt Single Actions for the Armory Commander with unmarked new replacement parts, the other four frames were assembled using used parts with mis-matched serial numbers (three of these have turned up and are the hands of collectors). All of the guns were inspected by the Armory's official inspector and received the cartouche. The two unserialized guns were presented to the commander on his retirement along with the double holster rig. The guy who had both guns and gave one gun to the current owner was the nephew of the commander.
The collection that contained these two guns was a hodge-podge with no particlular theme... It was collected by a guy who just liked guns and acquired them over a lifetime. Some of the 44 guns in his collection were literally junk, most were just average guns, gifts from customers at his grocery store, or stuff that was found on the desert.
There were, however the two just described AND a mint condition Smith and Wesson .44 Russian model, a brand new condition Philadelphia Derringer, and a so-so Harrington and Richardson .32 that was documented to have been taken by the local police from Pretty Boy Floyd.
The owner wanted to divest the entire collection and didn't want to be left with the "junk" or have to wait to sell the rest piecemeal. In addition, he wanted CASH!
I packed up all the guns, put them in my car and my wife and I went back home with all of them.
I advertised the collection (which I kept under my bed) to be sold to the best offer... which turned out to be $40,000. I figured the 39 so-so and junk guns were worth a total of about $2500. The other five were what brought the high price. This was in 1978.
Remember the owner wanted CASH? The buyer paid me with 2000 $20 bills! I've never seen so much money in one place in my life.
The owner lived two states away from me. I drove almost 700 miles with that cash in a paper grocery bag.
That's not good. Don't try to shoot it until is locks with the hammer down. The revolver cylinder should roll freely ONLY on the half-cocked position.
One additional thought. I notice the gun does not have a rear sight... apparently one has to use the hammer's firing blade as the rear sight. Either that or this IS a prototype of a new model that hasn't quite been thought out.
My call is that it IS an Iver Johnson model 1900, probably an early version.
HMMMMMM... I don't recall that.. but then I really wasn't too interested in Iver Johnsons. Looking at the cylinder I see normal locking slots for the cylinder lock snap and I fail to see why they would drop a proven technology in favor of a possible haphazard locking method at the time most dangerous... when the gun is discharging.
It may be that the model 1900's early model had a weak lock snap and it is often broken on those early models.
On the other hand, Colt got along quite well with a notch in the hammer as the rear sight on its percussion models. But then they didn't have a top strap to groove like the later Single Actions.
It might be another example of corner cutting to provide a "discount" reseller branded gun.
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Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works - Manufacturer of sporting arms since it started as Johnson, Bye & Company in 1871 at Worcester, Massachusetts. In 1883 became Iver Johnson & Company, and was again changed to its current form in 1884. In 1891 the firm moved to Finchburg, Massachusetts.
Some Tradenames used by Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works:
AUTOMATIC HAMMERLESS Tradename used on double action hammerless revolvers by Iver Johnson.
BOSTON BULLDOG Tradename used by J. P. Lovell & Sons on revolvers made by Iver Johnson.
CHAMPION Model name used by Iver Johnson on shotguns.
DEFENDER Tradename on revolvers made for J. P. Loveli Arms by Iver Johnson, c.1880.
EAGLE Tradename used on revolvers by Iver Johnson, c.1879-86.
EXCEL Tradename used by Iver Johnson.
EY Code following the model name on arms made for Montgomery Ward by Iver Johnson.
GEM Tradename used on pistols, c. 1870 marketed by Stevens Arms & Tool Company, and possibly made by them. This name is also attributed to Iver Johnson and Bacon Manufacturing Company.
HERCULES Tradename used by Montgomery Ward & Company on arms made by Iver Johnson.
KNOX-ALL Tradename on shotguns made by Crescent Fire Arms Company, and later on shotguns by Iver Johnson.
Lovell Arms Company c. 184091 in Boston, Massachusetts. Became J. P. Lovell & Sons about 1870, and was possibly absorbed by Iver Johnson in 1868 but allowed to operate under its existing name.
SECRET SERVICE SPECIAL Tradename used by the Fred Bifflar Company of Chicago, Illinois on revolvers made by Iver Johnson and by Meriden Firearms Company.
SIMPSON Tradename on revolvers made by Iver Johnson for J. P. Lovell & Company of Boston, Massachusetts.
SMOKEY CITY Tradename on revolvers made by Iver Johnson for J. P. Lovell of Boston, Massachusetts.
SWIFT Tradename used on revolvers by Iver Johnson, c.1900.
UNCLE SAM Tradename used by Iver Johnson, and also by J. Palmer O'Neal Company of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
U.S. REVOLVER CO. Tradename used by Iver Johnson on revolvers.
I think you are on the money. At the time the major, and minor, manufacturers were making so many variation for different resellers and harware store that its almost impossible to track down this type of firearm. But it looks like this is a variation of what you refer to.
Your Stevens Pocket Rifle was listed in the 1897 Sear Roebuck Catalogue.
The 12" barrel version could be had for $8.95
The 15" barrel version could be had for $10.33
To put the relative cost in perspective a Marlin 1894 Carbine in .44-40 with 20" bbl went for $10.64
Jaysun,
I Have a gun that looks just like the scout you sent pictures of. My gun says NEWPORT on the top. They were made by Newport arms not far from H&R factory. Or so I have been told...I have pictures but don't know how to send them...Dave
Dave,
Go to http://www.imagevenue.com/?googID=123 and load your pictures. Once they're loaded, you can copy the code and paste it here.
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