Here's one that will go to 5000+ posts. Too bad it will be as anti-historical as all the others.
This is completely true and nice to see someone finally point it out. At the same time, I believe we may have glorified the Confederacy a bit too much. While I realize that they were good people and most of their motives were pure, the simple fact is that they took up arms against their government. Last I knew, that is considered treason. The Confederate veterans have been treated throughout history much better than most guilty of treason could ever hope for.
The only thing wrong with trying to utilize the truth in this argument is that truth doesn't matter much to those of the NAACP persuasion.
I once watched footage of a black speaker in the house of reps state that "sharks still swim the route of the slave ships because so many were thrown overboard" on their way from Africa to here. Any ideas on how he was able to verify this outrageous claim?
Yes, it's true that our American flag stood for slavery for far longer than the Confederate flag did. But it's also true that people were captured/kidnapped by black slave traders before they were brought here to be slaves. Another snippet of truth is that there were black plantation owners who owned slaves.
If truth mattered to these people, they'd just shut up.
Our Confederate ancestors deserve better from this nation. They fought for what they believed in and lost.
So did John Walker Lindh. Should we "honor" him, too? Even if we assume that the war had nothing to do with slavery (which is a HUGE assumption), these men fought against the United States. Why should the United States then turn around and honor them? As a pragmatic matter, their treason against the United States was overlooked and forgiven. Shouldn't that be enough?
Most important, we should remember that when they surrendered, they gave up the fight completely. Defeated Confederate soldiers did not resort to guerrilla warfare or form renegade bands that refused to surrender. These men simply laid down their arms, went home and lived peacefully under the U.S. flag.
Some did. Others joined the Klan and used terror tactics to murder and terrorize black Americans and keep them from exercising their rights as Americans. Now, these were not Confederate guerrillas, but they certainly did not simply lay down their arms and "live peacefully."
Great post!
I gotta tell ya, people are so unbelieveably ignorant about the whole issue of slavery in this country. The most ignorant of all are the "African-Americans" - those who use that term as a source of pride are largely oblivious to the very facts surrounding their own heritage.
*** Keep reading!!!***
First of all, the slave trade in this country was outlawed in the early 1800s - but it was perpetuated illegally by Northern merchants. They were the ones with the wealth to finance the trips to Africa and the goods used to purchase the slaves. Most Southern landowners played no part in the actual importation beyond the purchase -- and they weren't the only ones making those purchases either!
Secondly, slavery was indeed a "trade". To hear so many "activists" in this country, you'd think that we took armies to Africa and rounded up potential slaves at gunpoint and brought them back. Not the case - no how, no way! Slaves, who were born into the institution of slavery IN Africa, were sold -- exchanged for a wide variety of goods including textiles, sugar, spices, etc. -- BY THEIR OWN "PEOPLE"!!!
Next is the fact that by bringing slaves into this country, so many doors were opened up for blacks to eventually achieve a higher standard of living. Look at how many millions of "African-Americans" we have in America today. Regardless of the claims to the contrary, opportunity abounds for everyone in this country, no matter their skin color. All it takes is a good attitude, hard work, and a sense of appreciation for just how good we really do have it here. What do you think were the prospects of Africans 200, 300, 400 years ago? Not good, when you think about it. Anyone of African heritage who thinks they would be better off today had slavery never existed in America should take a trip to Sub-Saharan Africa and have a look for themselves. Muhammad Ali told the tale pretty well back in the 1970s - but like most things that don't pander to people's pre-conceived notions and tell them what they want to hear - his statements went largely unnoticed.
And finally, the treatment of slaves in America - if you believe all the horror stories, you'd think they were all beaten and whipped daily. Again - no how, no way! Of course, there were many cases of maltreatment at the hands of cruel slaveholders - no denying that. However it simply was not a widespread practice for one basic reason: investment. The cost of a slave back then translates to a very high dollar amount by today's standards. Slaves were used for labor - labor they cannot perform if they are injured...and certainly not if they're dead. Most slaveowners were actually very good to their slaves and provided them food and shelter -- things they simply would not have received enough of if they were living the life of a slave IN AFRICA! If they ran away here - yes, they were disciplined. If they ran away in Africa - they were killed on-the-spot. There were simply too many to be found at practically no cost over there for the slaveholders to bother with a concept such as "discipline".
Bottom line is that, even though slavery was a deplorable institution in this country, it existed in every corner of the Earth back then. America was hardly the sole violator of "human rights". Actually, slave treatment in America was a cut above the rest.
I'm not justifying slavery by any means. I'm simply pointing out the ignorance of many people and their refusal to accept facts by those who try and champion the cause.
As with most things - a good dose of real history can cure ignorance.
Excellent read. Do agree the south deserves our belated
respect. I weary of hearing how a college may not display
the image of anything related to the Confederacy yet seem
to recall Ike kept the image of Gen.Lee behind his desk in the Peoples House. (Washington D.C.Aug.18,1960 TO Dr.Scott.
Oke noted "a nation of men of Lees calibre would be unconquerable in spirit and soul." Seems to me if neither
Abe Lincoln,nor Eisenhower could condemn this great man
neither should any lesser man.For they were Americans all.
Telling people that our flag "drips with blood" isn't a good way of convincing them to give one's opinion a hearing. If he has to demean our flag to make his own look good, he's lost the argument already.
There certainly was a connection between slavery and the American flag, or the French or Spanish or British flag for that matter. But as we've grown and changed, though, we've added new stars to the flag, and also changed what it represented. Does the Stars and Stripes flying at home or abroad now represent slavery? Don't you feel uncomfortable or embarassed posting such a claim in time of war?
The Confederate flag hasn't been able to disassociate itself from its unfortunate connection to racialism. In part it's because the Confederacy was defeated and Confederate history stopped, but the Confederate Battle Flag also became a symbol of segregation and White supremacy, so naturally many people are hostile to it. If you want to try to redeem that flag, give it a try, but it will take a lot of effort. Don't assume that that redemptive work is unnecessary or has already been done.
Check out some of the webpages the article you posted linked to. It looks like they are convinced not just that fallen Confederate soldiers deserve respect, but that the rebels were right, and that they were fighting for "our" liberties. Some even advocate secession today.
There's very little serious reflection on slavery and what it meant at the Confederacy Project. The "slavery" that concerns the website's owner is federal taxes and regulation. The condition of slaves a century and a half ago doesn't seem to bother him much.
Intelligent and responsible spokesmen might be able to make a good case for the Confederate Flag flying over Civil War monuments and battlefields, but the net effect of many of those working for that cause is simply to drive people away and convince them that the other side is right.
As for our own flag, think of the reparations controversy. Some measure of "reparations" were paid by those soldiers who fought and died to end slavery in America. There are all the little loopholes: they didn't go to war to free the slaves, the war itself couldn't free all the slaves, some slaveowners fought on the Union side, etc. But even taking that into account, a lot of men gave their lives for the end to slavery, and this, together with later efforts to achieve equal civil rights has helped to redeem our flag of some of its historical associations.
By this point in time, our flag represents people who opposed slavery and felt it wrong and regret it in more than a perfunctory and backhanded way far more than it represents slaveowners. I'm not so sure one could make the same statement about the rebel banners. In any event, insulting the national flag isn't the right way to proceed if you want to convince people.
I honor the bravery of the soldiers who served in the CSA, but will not honor the cause they served.
That was a different time, things were as they were. History has been and will continue to be rewritten to suit the victors. The victors will think as they like about the "reasons" and their claims to total "heroism" in every instance. Let them think as they like. I have to assume that the will of God was done for some reason, though quite possibly not for the reason which the victors declare it to be. They'll think as they like. I'll think as I like. I do not speak nor understand certain disrespectful language.
That time is past. I will respect what I wish, and I will not respect what I don't, and give others the quarter to do the same. God will sort it out and at some juncture in the distant mists, He will declare the truths of each man's actions, whether they were noble or whether they were a lie, or somewhere in between.
No, I don't feel it represents that, I know it represents that.