Posted on 11/27/2004 10:13:04 PM PST by wildcatf4f3
Went shooting for the first time in my life. Friend had a Winchester 94, walnut. I was intrigued, how many movies have I seen this rifle in? It felt so natural and I was actually hitting targets within a few shots. Would this be a good starter rifle?
The Winchester M94 is a fine rifle, so go get it.
The .30-30 cartridge chambering is great for hunting deer and black bear.
Not really. See the following article:
Winchester Models 1895The early model Winchesters all featured tubular magazines, running underneath & parallel to the barrel. These worked well with flat pointed bullets, but as ammunition evolved, the system proved dangerous with more efficient pointed spitzer type bullets — since a cartridge lay in the magazine nose-to-base with the one in front of & behind it, there was a real possibility that the recoil of the rifle could drive the point of the bullet into the primer of the cartridge in front of it, causing the cartridge to detonate inside the magazine.
The Model 1895 overcame this limitation by using a box magazine, giving it it’s distinctive profile. It was eventually chambered for full power rifle cartridges in the .30-06 class offering much greater power than the .44-40 "pistol class" cartridges chambered in the 1873 & 1892, a flatter trajectory than the black-powder large caliber cartridges chambered in the 1876 & 1886, and significantly more power than the .30-30 class intermediate power rifle cartridges chambered in the 1894.
The real problem was mine (and therefore Zane Grey's) was a take down model... which, in the .30-'06 caliber, tended to shoot loose after a while. Mine was still tight. I bought it from his sister.
OK I thought we were still on the Marlin 1895.....HUA on one of the Texas Rangers best Winchesters. Doom on me !
Stay safe !
NO
If your heart is set on a lever action or a 30-30, buy a Marlin, say a 336 or similar model. You will find a much more accurate and a rifle that has true side ejection (as long as you are right handed.)
A starter rifle should be something that you will develope your skills with and that you will use a lot. The 30-30 lever action has been used for deer hunting at 100 yards or less over much of the US. It is not a long distance rifle for antelope in the wilds of Montana or Wyoming, nor a rifle for moose in the Northern states.
Another post suggested also getting an inexpensive 22 LR bolt action rifle.
They practically give away 22 LR bolt actions at gunshows. I would suggest you look at K-Mart to see if they have any end of hunting season 30-30's or some other discount chain if you really want a lever action. Unless you really know what to look for, I would pass on buying a lever action at a gun show. If you have a very knowledgable friend then a gunshow will most likely get you a decent price on a used lever action
Personally for a starter rifle, I would opt for a military surplus rifle. One can get a military arsenal refinished Turkish or Yugo Mauser bolt action for under $150 or a nice Russian MN 1891/30 for under $80. While ammo can't be found at most local sporting goods stores, it can be purchased at gunshows and over the internet at very reasonable prices. Several major sporting good chains, like Big 5, are starting to care military surplus bolt action rifles.
don't forget to buy only blunt nose ammo..
He'll forget that once.........:o)
If you've got your heart set on it, go for it. It's a great rifle and you'll never regret the money spent on it. The 30-30 is the most popular centerfire hunting caliber in North America for a reason. The kick is not punishing and it's got the knock down power to handle anything North Amreica has thrown at it.
well.....if one must be a Cowboy then it should be a 40 of some sort.
I actually shot a whitetail once on the run at about 75 yards with a Marlin .444..a very lucky shot..do they still make those?
We have on old checkered .30-30 Marlin with a cheap as dirt burris glass and I can't hit shite with it.
I'd get one of those inexpensive Savage or even Ruger heavy barreled bolts in a nice all arounder like 30-06 or .308 for my first hunting rifle if it were me.....and save my $$$ for the glass.....then work up to something Allemange or Finn.
I'm not aware of any Cowboy rifles that can compete with even a mediocre bolt with Nazi glass.
OK...tell me where I'm wrong...lol
** this made me wonder if ol Harp ever got to shoot that fancy 45-70 he was given at some giddy up about a year beore he passed..RIP
dang...only once....and I hope not.
i get the willies when I'm pushing blunt up that tube and there is the least bit resistance.....
Agree..... My last lever gun I have a hankering to aquire is a 1873 sporter in 45 colt to go with a vintage 2nd generation SAA Colt a friend rebuilt for me from parts. It's a shooter and thus has no real collector value . It spells C.O.L.T just fine when ya slowly pull the hammer back ......music.
amazing how many of those old Antique (no ATF) firearms shoot damn good if well cared for and loaded with proper light loads.
I own a number of them and sort of would like to collect some.
those Colt SAA wheelers in good condition go for big bucks.
Probably my bad... I should have noted the '95 was in .45-70 so had to be a Marlin or a Remington. The Winchesters in that were the 1885 single shot, the 1886 Lever, and much later a few model special order Model 33s.
Sorry.
I 'm looking for one of the old german Jager (?) rifles.....original. I've seen a few. really well made and very attractive , accurate and and and and I want one....:o)
We got there eventually....good talking rifles with ya ...I'm off to get some rack time .
Stay safe !
I have to confess that I and most of my buddies, all of which had a 10/22 at one time or another, traded these rifles for various bolt-action .22 rifles, which we all love far better to a man. A .22 LR boltgun will generally be noticeably more accurate than a 10/22 unless you dump more money into the 10/22 than a really nice magazine-fed boltgun would cost. The 10/22 is a cheap shooter, but not all that great of a shooter -- people tend to trade up after buying them.
There are plenty of good bolt-actions too. On the cheap side, the CZ rifles are quite good, though not quite as smooth as some other actions. The Win M52 is an old favorite (and not made for years now), and super-smooth if expensive used. My personal pick is the Anschutz sporter boltguns, which can be had for something like $400 new, and also have a very nice trigger; these guys are famous for their high-precision target rifles but make conventional rifles on the same platform. The nice thing about the Anschutz is that they are notorious for reliably shooting the $15/brick Winchester .40gr PowerPoints in the 0.6-0.75 MOA range (5-shot groups), which is awesome for cheap ammo. With fancy match ammo, you can easily do <0.5 MOA but it generally isn't worth it to spend the money.
If you go for a .22 LR, I'd recommend a bolt action over the 10/22. Of those, I would recommend the CZ on the low-end ($200+ new), or maybe something like an Anschutz sporter ($400+ new) if you want something you'll probably never get tired of.
Pay no attention to the naysayers. If you feel comfortable shooting a 94 by all means it is a good starter rifle. Your comparison to a Telecaster is apt. Like a guitar, an important part of choosing a firearm is how it feels to you. A 94 is a classic, fun to shoot and a joy to carry. You didn't say exactly what you planned on using it for. If your plans include hunting get the 30-30. You will have to limit yourself to 200 yards or so, but most hunting is within that range anyway. If you just want it for plinking and self defense, consider a 357 Magnum which also shoots .38 Special. Pistol ammo costs a lot less, recoil is lighter, and the magazine will hold 10 shots instead of 5. And you can get one new for about three hundred dollars. As for a Marlin, they are good also, but it's really just a matter of preference, like Fender vs. Gibson. Marlins are better for mountng a scope due to the side ejection, but who wants a scope on a lever action? Ruins the whole feel and balance IMNHO. Pick one that feels right to you, and have fun.
My bonehead younger brother managed to get ahold of it somehow after Grandad went to his reward back in '86, but this year at Christmas I'm going to tell my younger brother whatever I have to in order to get it out of his hands. (I'll give it back when we're done, honest!)
Once I have it, well I guess it's gonna be up to him to get it back from me now won't it.
It's the first thing I ever fired. Somehow after this week, it seems to matter more than ever that I get ahold of it. As I told you the other day, I'm out here in Eldorado County with my inlaws and 'Papa Jim' put a .22 Savage autoloader into the paws of Lurker Jr. I'll post a pic here when I get back home. I'll never, ever till the day I die forget the look on my boys face when he put a .22 hollow point through the bottle of Gatorade I set up for him to shoot.
"Dad, did you see that! I nailed that thing right in the middle! Can I do another one, PLEASE DAD????" How in the name of all that's Holy could I say no?
Just like me, his granddad put the first 'real gun' he's ever dropped the hammer on into his hands. So, all of a sudden getting my hands on that old Marlin has taken on a more sudden and distinctive sense of urgency.
Besides, I think that thing will fit my boys small frame just about right. He's small even for a 9 year old, but that and I just can't wait to see the look on his face when he finally figures out how to work that lever and crack off 10 rounds.
I'm not a big fan of lever action rifles for serious work, but I guess that depends on how one defines 'serious work.' A hell of a lot of deer have fallen to .30-.30 and .45-70 fired from the lever action platform after all.
If new friend wildcat wants a Winchester lever action for his (or her) first rifle, who in the h*** am I to attempt to argue against that purchase.
To my mind, there's no such thing as a 'bad' first rifle, if you know what I mean. After all, if we can infect wildcat with the rifle bug, there's no way that can be a 'bad thing' now can it.
I'm going to catch some sack time, too my friend. It's a long way from Eldorado County to the flatlands of IL and I need to make it in 4 days so it's off to the rack in a few for me.
I hope that you and yours had a blessed Thanksgiving Squantos. If you don't mind my saying so publicly, you're one of the people that I'm very thankful to have in my life. I just wanted to tell you that.
Take care of yourself. The world is a better place with folks like you in it, and I am more rich than I can possibly tell for having made your acquaintance, let alone counting you among the few I call 'friends'.
Regards,
L
At this point hitting anything at 200 yards seems like a pipe dream, but people do it I hear. I read about snipers hitting at a thousand yards - thats 3000 feet - over a half a mile away! amazing. The first time I hit something at a hundred yards I'll probably start dancing or some such nonsense - I'm 44 years old so I'm coming to this pretty late - but man did I like the feel, sound, the whole shebang. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with a neophyte.
When I was in boot camp, I could smack a 200 meter target in the black 8 out of 10 times the first week. It's not really that hard. It just takes a bit of practice.
I highly recommend that you purchase the first rifle you feel comfortable with. I don't care if it's a lever action in .30-.30 or .45-70, a .22 rimfire single shot, a .30-06 pump, a .308 auto loader of some kind, or a 7.62 Russian piece of c*** you buy from someone you see in the Shotgun News for $99.00.
The point I'm trying to make is that I think you should buy a rifle that you're comfortable shooting, that you like to shoot, and one you can afford to buy several hundred rounds of ammunition so that you can become proficient in using it.
It doesn't matter what it is as far as I'm concerned. If you can make it hit near within a couple of inches of the black at 200 yards, then that's the one you should buy.
A .22 bullet in the black at 100 yards is far, far better than the .300 Weatherby Magnum that's a clean miss at the same range.
Besides, smaller caliber ammo is waaaaaay cheaper than all than fancy pants stuff that costs 30 bucks a box. If you can buy that lever action thingy for a reasonable price, by all means plunk down your money and take that sucker home.
The, if you'll allow me to give you some advice, practice with it, whatever it is!!!
It's far better to spend $200.00 on a decent .22 caliber rifle than $1,000.00 on something 'bigger' in my opinion. That's because for $100.00 you can buy almost 5,000 rounds of ammunition to practions with.
You're better off being damned sure you can hit a squirrel in the eye with a .22 at 150 yards than hoping and praying you can hit a man in the jeans with a .308 as far as I'm concerned.
Oh well, that's enough for me tonite.
Welcome to the forum wildcat.
Just remember, you can (almost) always buy something 'better' later on. Buy what you can now. Now, I don't know if you're married, but it's going to be far easier to tell your 'better half' that you bought a 'little .22' than some fancy pants big bore.
Regards,
L
bump
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