Posted on 11/08/2004 7:08:17 PM PST by Mount Athos
Hello, I'm engaged in an abortion discussion, I've created great controversy by arguing that babies in the womb deserve more consideration than pets. I feel I am on the cusp of changing minds and opening eyes a bit. I've shown some high quality pictures of babies in the womb that are quite stunning, that alone probably changes minds.
What I really need help with specifically is any source documenting that babies in the womb can perceive pain, dream, think, anything. These people I'm talking with think basically life only starts once you leave the womb. Give me a list of any behaviors and sentience babies have in the womb and documentation to back it up. I guess I'm asking a bit much, so no worries if you don't have anything, thanks for reading.
Also helpful is anything that explains that a baby in the womb is a distinct human being, not merely a part of a woman's body. Obviously I'm talking with people that are pretty far gone to the other extreme, but these are persuadables, not activists.
That's easy. Do a DNA test on the fetus, and compare it to the woman - it is NOT her body, as simple science illustrates.
Anyone who has seen an ultrasound of a three-month old fetus KNOWS that they are children -- not things and certainly not parasites.
They can move about, wiggle their fingers etc ... and they respond to sounds and other stimuli.
SEEING IS BELIEVING AND THE BEST WAY TO PERSUADE ANY PRO-ABORTION TYPE IS TO SHOW THEM HIGH-DEFINITION 4-D ULTRASOUNDS WITH A SOUND TRACK IN THE BACKGROUND.
During an ultrasound, our children would awake and become more active. They feel and hear the vibrations.Our twins would interact with each other, kicking at each other and reacting.
Even in the womb, they had hiccups.
Often, you could poke my wife's stomach and get the child to kick back.
During a friend's amniocentesis, the baby grabbed the needle.
Babies will turn toward a strong light shined on the mother's stomach. They also will react to sounds.
Here's a fantastic site that I refer to often. It details and refutes all of their arguments - including the one you're asking about.
http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_contents.asp
Here's the section on fetal pain
http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_14.asp
Pain, etc., is irrelevant. A zygote/fetus, etc., is a living human organism. That's all that needs to be shown.
I posted in another thread about my recent enlightenment on the issue and the letter I wrote to my Representatives. Please take a look:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1273943/posts
These aren't 'fetuses', that magically morph into humans the second the whole head leave the birth canal. They're what you and I once were, but they didn't get the chance to live their lives.
I wish I could remember the exact info - perhaps someone here will - but there was a wonderful news clip about a year or so ago of a baby undergoing some open womb surgery reaching out and grabbing hold of the surgeons finger. As I recall, it was quite young - not at all near to term. It being such a familiar reaction of newborns, the video is quite moving.
From http://www.visembryo.com/baby/stage19.html :
"Stage 19 (approximately 47-48 post ovulatory days) Brain has the first detectable brain waves."
Well, if you've seen the 3-dimensional photos of the "fetus's in the womb, then you know that they've been seen sucking their thumbs before birth!!!
Of course they can feel pain...........You must know the excruciating pain they must feel when those instruments of death come in to suck out their brains!!!
I know it's a graphic picture, but, sometimes we must be graphic......
My God, some of these people care more about Trees than they do about protecting a "life"....and the unborn is a living being!!!!
thank you so much for your letter. That is very helpful.
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