Educrats on the march.
Posted on 10/28/2004 6:43:59 PM PDT by Sonar5
Hi all,
I need some help and I am fuming about this. Today an incident happened at my son's school that concerns me greatly.
He is in 4th Grade and is age nine. One of his friends brought a small pocket knife to school and allegedly showed it to my son and others at their lunch table. Apparently he did not open the blade, and quickly put it away. No one was threatened. They are all friends in scouts, church, or sports.
One of the other children after lunch, not mine, told a teacher about it. I get a phone call at about 1:15 stating my son was involved in an incident at school. I ask first is he ok, the administrator says yes.
She then explains that my son and others failed to tell an adult or teacher they saw someone else with a knife at school and that she questioned my son. I asked if he was threatened, and she replied no.
She stated the student who brought it would probably be expelled. I thought that was the end of it, since my son didn't bring the knife, no one was threatened, and my son, nor anyone else held it, nor was the blade even shown.
First off, these are 9 year olds. And I'm ok with the kid that told, and whatever happens to the kid that brought it happens. My son didn't feel it was serious.
My concern is the treatment of my son as having done something wrong.
My son got home about 3:40 or so, and I immediately asked him what happened, who was involved, was he threatened, did he or anyone else hold it, etc....
He then told me he was interrogated without my knowledge inside a closed room with only him and the administrator and talked to about what he did wrong by not telling an adult, asked questions, and the administrator was writing down the responses. Two other children who did not say anything were also subjected to this interrogation, seperately.
He and the two others were then pulled out of class before recess and during recess were taken to the office where they, without my knowledge were coerced into writing false statements stating they made bad choices by not telling an adult, and one other example of making a bad choice.
All three were told if they did not bring the form signed by a parent tomorrow, they would miss recess.
So, now my son is made out to have done something wrong. By the way, the administrator signed the form at the top.
My son was never advised of his rights to call us, and have us present, was never advised why he had to write the form, and we were never notified of the form until our son arrived home.
My son is in Scouting and considers a knife a tool, and knows the difference between showing something and getting threatened. He has also been trained in the proper use of a knife, a safety circle, etc... He knew what the student did was wrong, and he knew not to bring those types of items to school.
So what would you do.
We are not signing the form, and I talked to him about his rights, and the fact he did nothing wrong, the student who told did nothing wrong, the only one who did something wrong was the student who brought it, and the way he was treated.
I then went into explaining his rights to him, and about no longer answering any questions without us present.
So put yourself in my shoes, and ask what you would do. I felt the initial incident was no big deal, neither did my son at first. Now I feel my son and we as parents were violated in our rights, as well as our sons.
BTW - I tried calling the administrator who called earlier, and tried to tell her we were not returning the form, and we feel he shouldn't have to miss recess, and be punished, and she replied she didn't like my tone, and then stated the conversation is over, and hung up on me. Nice, huh?
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards, Sonar5
As far as the principal questioning him, it was poor judgement on her part not to have a witness to protect her.
It sounds like she followed what I would consider reasonable steps in that she questioned the boys separately, took notes, asked the boys to reflect on their decision and connect this experience with another case of poor judgement. Then, as far as punishment goes, she left it up to you the parent. All she wants, from what I can tell, is your acknowledgement of the situation. Missing recess is only if he doesn't return the note. The punishment comes only if he doesn't let his parents know.
However, you seem to be very upset by this and I'm wondering if there is something else that happened that I'm not picking up on.
Sounds like the San Juan Unified School district to me. What part of California do you live in?
Cross out what the teacher wrote and write what you and your son think about the knife. Then write what you and your son think about the administrators acts and opinions. Then sign it.
Scouts like their tools. They show, handle, discuss and use them. There is nothing wrong with that. There is something very wrong with tattling on a friend that is doing the above.
First, you need to request a copy of the school district's policy regarding discipline, specifically this situation. Secondly, ask if the school has made it clear in announcements or written rules to all students that they must report this type of activity and ask what was their method of informin the students. If they have done all of this appropriately, then your son probably could be considered at fault. If the school has not made their policy clear then I would definitely pursue it.
You've already told the administrator that you disapproved of the way she handled the situation; she told you she didn't like your attitude. Let HER stew about it. Don't send the form back. SHE could get in serious trouble by exposing herself as a child abuser. She showed herself to be a total idiot in the way she tried to scare the boys into turning snitch. Worse...any teacher, principal,
guidance counsellor who would go into an empty room with a single child with the door closed is asking for an investigation of her personal integrity and adequacy in her job, possibly even a lawsuit on sexual assault. They teach a helluva lot more than old Thomas Mann precepts in College Education courses these days! Rule #1...Protect Thyself! Think before you speak!
I taught High School for 35 years...the days of the school supt/principal being the little Tin God of the premises are gone. Jeez, even teachers have rights today! <>g<>
Try talking to the administrator's boss before doing anything rash. If it were me, I would tell the administrator that the form is inappropriate and that I (you) will not sign it. The matter is likely to be dropped at that point without you needing to even go to the administrator's boss. You also might not have all the facts. See if the administrator has any facts that are unknown to you. We all tend to think our kids are perfect, and even the near perfect ones make a mistake now and then. My wife taught in public schools for 25 years, she's not a socialist (it's irrelevant, but she never votes for anyone but Republicans), she was very dedicated to her students' best interests, probably put more time and energy into her profession than 95% of the Freepers, and always wanted the parents of her students to be pleased with their childrens' education.
I differ--it serves the purpose of letting the child see you will defend him--even if he is wrong. The others are right--he did not tell on the boy with the knife and 'show responsibility'. My bad! CYA is today's game and has also created a dog eat dog world. Too bad it just didn't end where it began because it seemed innocent enough to me. I do question a 9 year old with a knife anywhere except at a Boy Scout meeting.
PS - get the other parents together with you of the other children who were questioned. You'll be stroger together.
she replied she didn't like my tone, and then stated the conversation is over, and hung up on me.
Look at it from the educational establishment viewpoint. With all the stabbings by 8 and 9 year olds in the news they have to punish whomever they can. BTW, someone please look up when we had a 3rd grader do a stabbing.
I couldn't agree more. Parent needs to put this in proper perspective.
I have had these type of problems with school officials before. I had a daughter suspended for "dishonesty" for refusing to name others involved in a incident. It is really crazy the way they coerce children into tattling and they do interrogate them.
I told my children to never talk to the officials without their father or me there and made it plain to the officials that I felt that way. I figured that out when my oldest was in school.
If I were you I would go to school with my child tomorrow and make it plain how you feel in person. Then make the point that your child should not be punished about recess just because you won't sign. I never would sign those types of things and trust me they will get mad. Oh well.
Once they find out you will back up your child it should get easier- though no promises on that.
If you decide to go up against them, you do need a backup plan- I ended up home schooling one daughter for a year because a mid-school admin. was an A$$. You do have to stick up for your children though, or the officials will run over the top of them.
Just what I would do- but the school officials hide in their office when I show up!! I am never disrespectful either, do not scream or belittle them; I just argue my point and try to make them realize that they have no common sense.
Good Luck!!
Different situation. The child was not confined for years, days or even, I suspect, hours. What happened here is more akin to telling a child to stay in his or her seat during class or going to detention than a false arrest.
A lot of private schools have been hijacked too
Schools are socialist and marxist indroctrination centers. Notice the heavy hand of the state.
Top-down societies really suck. Trouble is, botton-up societies remain experimental (well, what's a couple hundred years).
Educrats on the march.
get out of the public school, its a den of devils
My advice: Don't sign the form. Skip the recess. Explain that sometimes adults are loopy, he'll get used to it.
Then tell your son that the Gun Safety rules apply to knives (or sticks, or chicken fingers, or G.I. Joes, or drawings of the Battle of Gettysburg):
STOP, DON'T TOUCH, LEAVE THE AREA, TELL AN ADULT.
No, it doesn't make sense, but that's the environment he's in, so use this as a opportunity to teach him how to avoid a similar situation again.
From the post I gather that the school has to let the student call their parents and be present.
If that is so, she did.
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