Posted on 10/28/2004 6:43:59 PM PDT by Sonar5
Hi all,
I need some help and I am fuming about this. Today an incident happened at my son's school that concerns me greatly.
He is in 4th Grade and is age nine. One of his friends brought a small pocket knife to school and allegedly showed it to my son and others at their lunch table. Apparently he did not open the blade, and quickly put it away. No one was threatened. They are all friends in scouts, church, or sports.
One of the other children after lunch, not mine, told a teacher about it. I get a phone call at about 1:15 stating my son was involved in an incident at school. I ask first is he ok, the administrator says yes.
She then explains that my son and others failed to tell an adult or teacher they saw someone else with a knife at school and that she questioned my son. I asked if he was threatened, and she replied no.
She stated the student who brought it would probably be expelled. I thought that was the end of it, since my son didn't bring the knife, no one was threatened, and my son, nor anyone else held it, nor was the blade even shown.
First off, these are 9 year olds. And I'm ok with the kid that told, and whatever happens to the kid that brought it happens. My son didn't feel it was serious.
My concern is the treatment of my son as having done something wrong.
My son got home about 3:40 or so, and I immediately asked him what happened, who was involved, was he threatened, did he or anyone else hold it, etc....
He then told me he was interrogated without my knowledge inside a closed room with only him and the administrator and talked to about what he did wrong by not telling an adult, asked questions, and the administrator was writing down the responses. Two other children who did not say anything were also subjected to this interrogation, seperately.
He and the two others were then pulled out of class before recess and during recess were taken to the office where they, without my knowledge were coerced into writing false statements stating they made bad choices by not telling an adult, and one other example of making a bad choice.
All three were told if they did not bring the form signed by a parent tomorrow, they would miss recess.
So, now my son is made out to have done something wrong. By the way, the administrator signed the form at the top.
My son was never advised of his rights to call us, and have us present, was never advised why he had to write the form, and we were never notified of the form until our son arrived home.
My son is in Scouting and considers a knife a tool, and knows the difference between showing something and getting threatened. He has also been trained in the proper use of a knife, a safety circle, etc... He knew what the student did was wrong, and he knew not to bring those types of items to school.
So what would you do.
We are not signing the form, and I talked to him about his rights, and the fact he did nothing wrong, the student who told did nothing wrong, the only one who did something wrong was the student who brought it, and the way he was treated.
I then went into explaining his rights to him, and about no longer answering any questions without us present.
So put yourself in my shoes, and ask what you would do. I felt the initial incident was no big deal, neither did my son at first. Now I feel my son and we as parents were violated in our rights, as well as our sons.
BTW - I tried calling the administrator who called earlier, and tried to tell her we were not returning the form, and we feel he shouldn't have to miss recess, and be punished, and she replied she didn't like my tone, and then stated the conversation is over, and hung up on me. Nice, huh?
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards, Sonar5
I sold homemade explosives (smoke bombs/stink bombs) when I was in junior high and high school and made a fair bit of money at it funding my chemistry hobby. One day when I was sophmore the high school was evacuated because one of my customers decided to light one off in the high school ventilation system. I was not implicated since the perpetrator had the good sense not to squeal. My chemistry teacher who had a real good idea as to the source winked at me after the incident. Wouldn't happen like that today. For example, a nearby high school called in the EPA and roped off a school bus and quarantined the students on it when horror of horrors a kid was caught playing with mercury from a broken thermometer! We used to play with it and rub it on pennies in our pockets all day. It's stupidity and fear at work well out of proportion with reality. Let kids be kids.
"She also confirmed that that form will now remain in his records, from here on out. She said to take care of it legally."
This is why all the quality teachers and administration fled public schools. Sue happy people ruin it for everyone. When I was a student in grade school our principle always questioned (interrogated) us kids who got into trouble by our own fault or by association. Welcome to the new age of Gestapo schools. Pathetic
This is not an "interrogation" but an attempt to resolve a difficult problem. Legal rights? Puhlease, we can't go about Mirandizing students every time there is a problem. Standard procedure is to question the students away from the others in a quiet area..
For school administrators a knife on campus is a huge incident, a "10" on the Richter Scale, and is grounds for instant suspension.
Our principal sent home a student for bringing a knife (provided by the parent) with which to cut cheese. She hated to do it but felt it was necessary to enforce school policy. She gave all students a "heads-up" about this at the commencement of the year so there'd be no future confusion. Students are also told that if they see a knife they are to immediately report it to an adult supervisor or they would face disciplinary actions.
Your child is not being suspended and hasn't, to this point, missed even a recess; I'd say that is not too bad at all. In fact, it sounds as though the administrators are trying to be reasonable.
You could show up and make a scene, but II'd really think it through.
Instead, I'd have your child do the assignment and then attach a note explaining your point of view.
I'm not sure what the rules are, or if they require my son to do something.
When the three went down there, the one who brought it was sitting there with his head down, menaing two things.
1) Some other child told an adult.
2) They probably got the knife and the kid confessed.
Why subject the other three to this treatment if it was already being addressed?
Wow, this is not how our teachers act. Although, I will grant you that when society expects the teacher to be nurse, mother, father, counselor, and on and on and then complain they are making too much money--WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?
Furthermore, they cannot even hug a child for fear of ramifications. The good old days are gone and replaced by greedy liberals interested only in individual rights--meaning their own.
We now use purple pens because red is symbolic of something bad. What a tragedy? And don't get me started on grief counselors--it makes me disgusted.
"For what damage?"
I don't mean to imply she should sue for money. The only thing these people listen to is LITIGATION, always be ready to file the complaint. They've made that bed, and now they must sleep in it. Until they are kicked to the curb, then then can sleep in the street.
Because they were with the kid when he had the knife, and they knew and saw and probably all held the knife. They want the kids to know in no uncertain terms knives aren't allowed. Why are you interfering with that lesson?
Strong advice: take someone with you when you go so it won't turn into a 'he said' 'she said' as to what transpired if things don't go well. Have a witness with no emotional involvement, but on your side.
I don't agree with your position, but I don't want you to create major problems for yourself. Based on how things went on the phone, it sounds like the school administration may try to throw you out or call the cops on you.
Oh, and THANKS to all so far who've given me great comfort and hope by answering my post 96 in the affirmative!
I was notified by phone, and then the note was required to be signed by me.
They can't state they needed the form for notification, notification was already done.
Maybe they do plan to use the form against the kid.
They sent the kids to the office, and they sent the kids home with a note for their parents. What did they do wrong?
You sound like MY kind of enterprising American!
It doesn't matter. They wanted you to see it, signing it proves you did. End of story.
It SHOULDN'T have to be treated as radical if we were living in the 50's! The boys WOULD be bringing their pocketknives to school..the high schoolers would be bringing their hunting guns for after school. And NO ONE WOULD BE MAKING A FUSS!!!
EACH CHILD DOES have a record. It's kept in the school office.
Each year, prior to school starting, when the classes are being formed...the teachers SEE the records. I've HEARD them. "No, I do NOT want this one!!!" "I'll take this one!" "Trade you Johnny for Susie"....blah blah blah.
When they leave elementary school, guess what's given to the Jr. Highs? That ever growing manilla envelope. And then on to High School. Kids are branded...it's NOT RIGHT, but it's reality.
This really IS a tricky one...on the one hand, I'd want my boy to know that no, I don't necessarily like the rule of the knife being made into a big deal. BUT..those are the rules of the school, and let's follow them. On the other hand, I'll stick with what I said...the administrator WAS WRONG having the child in that room alone, signing something regarding a weapon (sigh), without his parent(s) there.
I cannot believe what I have been reading.. Please teach your son to obey the rules and if he is caught not ratting on a friend to take it as a part of life. I realize that he is only nine but I think that is a wonderful time to teach him before he is older and gets into real trouble.
Sometimes we have to "take things that happen"
How in the world can teachers teach our children if parents have to be there every time they discipline one of them.
I see that you don't know the legal difference between an interrogation and an interview.
Well, gee willikers, I seem to recall from my THREE YEARS IN LAW SCHOOL that for all intents and purposes there isn't a difference worth mentioning in the context of this thread.
However, since you have admitted to not being an attorney in another post, let me give you some free legal advice:
The test as to whether questioning is illegal isn't whether or not someone is being questioned, but whether or not he or she is being questioned WHILE IN CUSTODY and, further, that it is highly unlikely--if not impossible under current US law--that spending a period of time equal to a recessin a principal's office would count as "custody" for the purposes of determining whether or not a questioning/interview/interrogation was illegal.
You need more hair of the dog, hair, your post betrays dangerous facistic tendencies. Rules were made to be broken, especially the bullshit rules of those Commie Facists of the Teachers Unions, one rule to rule us all!
Sonar...do a google for your school district. I'll bet there's ALL the laws on there.
Finny, I absolutely agree with Post #96, Thank You....
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