Posted on 10/28/2004 6:43:59 PM PDT by Sonar5
Hi all,
I need some help and I am fuming about this. Today an incident happened at my son's school that concerns me greatly.
He is in 4th Grade and is age nine. One of his friends brought a small pocket knife to school and allegedly showed it to my son and others at their lunch table. Apparently he did not open the blade, and quickly put it away. No one was threatened. They are all friends in scouts, church, or sports.
One of the other children after lunch, not mine, told a teacher about it. I get a phone call at about 1:15 stating my son was involved in an incident at school. I ask first is he ok, the administrator says yes.
She then explains that my son and others failed to tell an adult or teacher they saw someone else with a knife at school and that she questioned my son. I asked if he was threatened, and she replied no.
She stated the student who brought it would probably be expelled. I thought that was the end of it, since my son didn't bring the knife, no one was threatened, and my son, nor anyone else held it, nor was the blade even shown.
First off, these are 9 year olds. And I'm ok with the kid that told, and whatever happens to the kid that brought it happens. My son didn't feel it was serious.
My concern is the treatment of my son as having done something wrong.
My son got home about 3:40 or so, and I immediately asked him what happened, who was involved, was he threatened, did he or anyone else hold it, etc....
He then told me he was interrogated without my knowledge inside a closed room with only him and the administrator and talked to about what he did wrong by not telling an adult, asked questions, and the administrator was writing down the responses. Two other children who did not say anything were also subjected to this interrogation, seperately.
He and the two others were then pulled out of class before recess and during recess were taken to the office where they, without my knowledge were coerced into writing false statements stating they made bad choices by not telling an adult, and one other example of making a bad choice.
All three were told if they did not bring the form signed by a parent tomorrow, they would miss recess.
So, now my son is made out to have done something wrong. By the way, the administrator signed the form at the top.
My son was never advised of his rights to call us, and have us present, was never advised why he had to write the form, and we were never notified of the form until our son arrived home.
My son is in Scouting and considers a knife a tool, and knows the difference between showing something and getting threatened. He has also been trained in the proper use of a knife, a safety circle, etc... He knew what the student did was wrong, and he knew not to bring those types of items to school.
So what would you do.
We are not signing the form, and I talked to him about his rights, and the fact he did nothing wrong, the student who told did nothing wrong, the only one who did something wrong was the student who brought it, and the way he was treated.
I then went into explaining his rights to him, and about no longer answering any questions without us present.
So put yourself in my shoes, and ask what you would do. I felt the initial incident was no big deal, neither did my son at first. Now I feel my son and we as parents were violated in our rights, as well as our sons.
BTW - I tried calling the administrator who called earlier, and tried to tell her we were not returning the form, and we feel he shouldn't have to miss recess, and be punished, and she replied she didn't like my tone, and then stated the conversation is over, and hung up on me. Nice, huh?
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards, Sonar5
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inside a closed room with only him and the administrator
>>
This is very inappropriate. It's also the only thing you are likely to be able to make an issue. If I understood your post correctly the "rules" at the school include a rule making it mandatory to report violators. A scout understands about rules. I admire your son's loyalty to his friend.
Of course you are right! My parents didn't teach me that one. They actually taught me to follow the rules at school.
Good parsing!
A parent has to be there every time a kid gets sent to the principle's office? I don't think so! Schools can't function under the rules you seem to want.
I agree--sign the form. You probably signed a code of conduct when the school year began which stated that a student seeing a weapon is to report it. (What would have happened to your son had the boy actually used it in a deadly way--that is why he is to report to a teacher if he sees a knife.)
The statement is not false, the administrator talked to your son about it and is making a paper trail for the expulsion--not against your child but for the expulsion hearing.
Your son has learned a lesson, and now you have too. Sometimes unpleasant things happen but we take it like a man and get on with life.
If this is like my sons school this 'form' is just a 'time-out' sheet that the kids fill out re-stating what they did wrong and then an example of a better choice they could have made. Nothing more than a talking to in written form, kinda like when we used to have to write sentences. Not a big deal.
I hope the tattle tale gets the snot beat out of him. Little bastard. Sounds like a kid destined to become a Liberal one day. Unless of course, someone changes his outlook on life early, by demonstrating to him what happens to those who seek to gain favor with others, by betraying the trust of his friends. Bet you dollars to dough-nut holes that that is how John F'n Kerry behaved when he was a kid.
Right...what stabbings? On similar lines I know two high school girls who were suspended for carrying Midol in their purse, and I know of an elementary school boy who was suspended for bringing a "real" metal butter knife in his lunch bag to spread his peanut butter. Zero tolerance is a code word for zero common sense.
...what Dan(9698) said, and certainly have a look behind the link that Kokojmudd presented.
http://www.aclj.org/
And to All:
BTW, folks, today one of my kids came home from school with lots of stickers (including a bumper sticker) from the following.
http://www.everychildmatters.org/
And not long after the start of the fall semester, the same child brought a very suspect school assignment home from her teacher--several pages of questions that are also in psych. evaluation tests (the MMPI, for one--remember that from Intro. or General Psych. class?).
It's getting uglier, and it's no longer only in California. We'll most likely be homeschooling and/or hiring a tutor or two next year.
I don't know how it works at your son's school, but at my daughter's school, a booklet with all of the school's rules and discipline policies is sent home at the beginning of each year and parents are required to read it and sign it.
My concern for you is that if your situation is like ours, then you may have agreed to the school's discipline policies if you signed the same kind of forms that we did.
I think that is ridiculous. The administrator assumed facts not in evidence, and then tried to manipulate the youngster in as much as their is an assumed higher allegiance to the 'state', than to his Cub Scout buddy or his parents.
The problem occurred when the 'other' kid ratted out the culprit, and more than likely, to gain Brownie points.
To bad this child in question didn't have the wherewith all to just clam up and say nothing.
Note to Freedom minded parents whose children are in socialist public schools: Brief them that they are to give nothing but name, rank and serial number and demand they speak first with their legal counsel [mommy and daddy].
This country is going to hell in a hand basket as more and more people seem so eager to roll over and show big brother their soft white underbelly.
When I was in grade school I got framed for shoving an apple in a toilet and flushing the toilet to overflow it. I was in 4th grade. The principal badgered me and cajoled me to admit I did it. I refused. He threatened me with all measures of punishment, from expulsion to being publicly ostracized.
I held my ground and finally after two hours got belligerent and rude and demanded my mother. When my mother arrived, she trusted me and my story.
I was suspended for 3 days by the a$$hole principal. I stayed home with mom and ate cookies and watched Beetle Baily on our first color television.
That was a seminal link in the chain on me becoming a conservative. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I hate authority, unless I voluntarily and with clear mind accept it beforehand.
What they did was to interrogate a child not even suspected of wrongdoing.
Excellent addendum. :-)
LOL!
Oh, PLEASE! It was a POCKET KNIFE, for crying out loud! Holy cats, what on EARTH is wrong with some of the people on this thread? The boy was NOT wrong in any way, nor was the boy who brought the pocket knife in the first place!
What was WRONG was a school rule stating that 9-year-old boys can't carry pocket knives of the kind that every American male of just about every age has carried every decade of this country's existence up until the politically-co-WRECKED latter decades.
This whole thread fries me. The father shouldn't have to resort to home-schooling his kids, boys shouldn't get in trouble for carrying pocketknives and girls shouldn't get in trouble for carrying aspirin in thier purses! I know there will be niminy-piminy prisses who'll whine, "But there was a school rule!" The rule was and IS a wrong and stupid one. Pocket knives don't cause trouble -- BAD KIDS DO. The rules should apply to behavior, not to a handy time-immemorial tool in a red-blooded American boy's pocket. What message are we sending to kids with this kind of screwed priority, of putting the onus on the innocent and useful pocket knife rather than on kids who exhibit hood-like behaviour, pocket knives or not?
Gosh, I HOPE there will be some people here who agree with me and say so!
I believe the reason they want you and your son to sign the form is so that it can be used at the Superintendents Hearing when they suspend or expel the child who brought the knife.
They must have witnesses as far as I know, and they must have your permission to allow your child to testify. So if you sign, you would in fact be agreeing to allow your son to testify against the child.
Sue the bastards. The cops couldn't do this to your kid, and neither should the Commie Facists at your son's school. You should seriously consider getting your child out of there, there should NEVER be any kind of confrontation like this with minors without a parent present.
I had my kid in Catholic School and Public School (Also Daycare with the wonderful Salvation Army, God Bless them, everyone), never had a problem like this. The administrators are usually the worst part of the whole system.
They are little Hitlers these people, and they are probably just uptight because they know their butt-boy Kerry is going down hard in a few days.
Support Vouchers! Break the Unions! Save the Children!
"She stated the student who brought it would probably be expelled."
1.So big deal a kid brought a (pocket?)knife to school, was he a known problem child? Schools will over look the serious problem kids who exhibit continous behavioral problems but expell a kid like this over ONE INCIDENT!
The other story where the teacher got into an in room brawl over the kids back pack being thrown into the trash can is pampered yet this kid will get expelled? Crazy stuff
Maybe by having him reflect on it and write a report stating what was wrong about what happened, and showing that to his parents for their signature so they know what's going on too.
Wait... that's what happened here. Wait. That's all that happened here. What's the problem with what the school did again?
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