Posted on 09/11/2004 1:11:31 PM PDT by No_Doll_i
Ok yeah it's a vanity but I REALLY think we need to get beyond the forgeries themselves and figure out what the endgame is. There has to be a bigger picture. This was too easily refuted and they had to know it before it was aired.
I have a few theories and a LOT of questions, so bear with me and read on.
Questions:
1. Why was the forgery done in such and amaturerish way? Rather than use MS Word with default setting would it have been better to make a reasonable facsimile using equipment and paper from the era? (This stuff is available)
2. Where did the documents come from? A kerry staffer trying to score points? The DNC? (unlikely) Some rabid lefty from a blog or DU? Hillary? (that is kind of a joke)
3. Who put them in Rather's hands? His daughter? A kerry staffer at the direction of kerry himself? DNC?
4. Why the really really bad job of vetting the documents and ignoring what sources they did speak with? Did they not think the widow, son, Hodges and others they spoke with would not speak up? Did they think the records on who retired (Staudt) when would not be checked?
5. Why did Joe, Paul and Snakehead show up when they did? Damage control in general? To keep the originator shut up? Just intimidation? Did they initiate the documents pr are the damage control team in reaction to them?
6. What did they hope to accomplish with this other than the obvious? Test run to see how solid/rabid the base actually is? How long they could perpetrate the lie? Find out how, who and how long it would take to debunk the thing as a test run for a later date, say 08?
7. Is Rather protecting himself or his daughter and from who or what?
8. Why is McAwful still standing behind this?
9. Did this start out as something they thought they could pull off and get out of control? If so why not cut their losses?
10. Is this a case of premature ejaculation? Would this not be better used as a last minute ploy?
11. Is SeeBS really willing to go in the tank for Rather?
12. Who is being protected and why? Is the real truth that kerry saw and authorized or demanded they get released and the DNC is faced with the prospect as their standard bearer?
I'm thinking beyond the obvious answers here, those are too easy.
Ok that is some of the questions I have and I will not lay out all the theories at the moment lest you think I am some spy novelist wannabe. There are a few people here that know me and know I am not a conspiracy freak or a total nutcase... mass55th, smartaleck, boomop, please speak up if you could.
There has GOT to be a LOT more going on here and with the insight, talent and fertile minds on this site I'm certain we can come up with a lot of it.
Any takers?
I think this is a vanity post
FYI You guys might want to tell the people on here I am not a complete whack job... well you know me will you really say that? LoL
Thanks!!
yikes did I post this in the wrong place? I don't post much and I hope I didn't screw up!!
Admin Mod HELP!!
I'd say it was likely someone young that made the fake documents. Someone that had no clue about typewriters and had never experienced a world without computers.
This story from the Prowler at the American Spectator: "More than six weeks ago, an opposition research staffer for the Democratic National Committee received documents purportedly written by President George W. Bush's Texas Air National Guard squadron commander, the late Colonel Jerry Killian. The opposition researcher claimed the source was a 'retired military officer.' According to a DNC staffer, the documents were seen by both senior staff members at the Democrat National Committee as well as at the Kerry campaign. 'More than a couple people have heard about these papers,' says the DNC staffer. 'I've heard that they ended up at the Kerry campaign for them to decide how to proceed and presumably the Kerry campaign handed the papers over to 60 Minutes which used them on Wednesday night, but I know this much: When there was discussion here, there were doubts raised about their authenticity.'" That's a quote from a DNC staffer. </font color>
Dan Rather and CBS are going down in a ball of flames. I'm moving on to Kerry and the DNC. When the Swiftees first came to light, all we heard from the press was “Bush connections”, right? Where is the outcry about “Kerry connections, DNC connections” regarding these forgeries?
Your question "Is SeeBS really willing to go in the tank for Rather?" is a great one. In fact, I'd even elaborate to ask "Is SeeBS really willing to go in the tank for Kerry??
Very good post, very good questions. I agree that the memo issue is SOOO transparent, so much so as to be quite suspect.
Hiya Eggs!
I really don't think SeeBS would go down for kerry since they already know he is a loser. Now they might fear the DNC enough to go up in flames... who would really want those thugs following you around?
Dunno, it is all speculation I suppose.
>>The opposition researcher claimed the source was a 'retired military officer.'<<
Probably the same one who gave them the Abu Grabe photos. The Republicans figured out who the mole was and allowed him to 'steal' the documents, which were passed along to the rats, perhaps through Seymore Hersch.
The Republicans knew that the Old Media rats, blinded by their hatred of Bush and confused from years of drug use, would be sloppy in vetting the docs, so they could make them obviously fake and the rats would still run with them.
Now the rats are stuck. They have to brazen it out, because they can't admit the docs were stolen. What could they say, "B**** set me up"?
Now it's total war, New Media vs Old Media.
There is no way Rove could know that CBS or DNC would not hold on to the documents and release them just before the election, before they could be exposed as fraudulent.
There is no way he could take that risk.
I agree.
There are so many technical, logical, and formatting issues with these documents. If they are forgeries, the the forger is inept. I think it quite likely the creator of the documents intended more of a hoax than forgery.
I think it would be cool if this turns out to be the unintended consequences of what started out as a joke.
Hey doll, these are good questions. Jeffs suggestion of a sting operation is interesting, but risky. It would have to be a freelance operation, I dont think Rove would risk this operation with Bush's momentum gain over the last two weeks. The Swift Vets have nailed Kerry bigtime, and his record, character, and questionable mental state are the elephants in the living room. Everyone on both sides of the aisle knows this guy is a fraud. So, if Kerry himself saw and personally directed that these memos be floated out there, that is not only a nail in the coffin of Kerry, but more importantly, the entire Democratic party. Anyone who would release such an obvious forgery is utilizing very poort judgement, to put it mildly. Perhaps this is the reason the dems and there MSM enablers will go down with this ship.
"I think this is a vanity post"
And your point is?
"I am not a complete whack job"
Smartaleck knows NoDoll and isn't touching this line witha 10 ft pole.
She does have great taste when it comes to Scotch though!!!!
As always, I'll look forward to your insights.
If you want on or off my offshoring ping list, please FReepmail me!
Please note this FR thread which apparently has a similar goal?
Posted on 09/11/2004 12:42:12 PM CDT by jmstein7
Activism Request: FReeper Blue Ribbon Commission to Investigate CBS-DNC-Kerry Link, Issue Report
Essentially, here is what we need:
1) Conclusive evidence that the documents are indeed forgeries
2) Definitive evidence that the DNC is the source of these documents, or, at least, that they provided them to the other parties
3) Evidence that the Kerry campaign was involved -- i.e. that the Kerry campaign was aware of, or had seen, these documents before CBS ran the story
Of course, anything that goes further than that would be better. If we can come up with a conclusive report on these issues, we can end the campaign and smash the mainstream media's credibility.
The media will not do a full investigation, nor will the government. So, it's up to us to undertake this task.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1213232/posts
Are you sure you want to have me attest to your sanity, I just got out of the looney bin myself! :-)
CNN-February 13, 2004
Guardsman says he saw Bush's Guard records in trash
Allbaugh: Charges are 'hogwash' and 'absolute garbage'
(CNN) --A former officer in the Texas National Guard said Thursday he once overheard a conversation in which there was a request to sanitize President Bush's Guard records during Bush's tenure as Texas governor.
Soon afterward, he said, he saw Bush's Guard performance review in a trash can. Bush served in the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam War era.
Retired Lt. Col. Bill Burkett, who was then an adviser to the Texas adjutant general, who in that capacity serves as the commander of the state's National Guard, made the allegations.
He said that in 1997 he overheard Joe Allbaugh -- who was Bush's chief of staff at the time -- ask Guard commander Maj. Gen. Daniel James to gather Bush's files and "make sure there wasn't anything there that would embarrass the governor."
Allbaugh reacted angrily to Burkett's charges, calling them "hogwash" and "absolute garbage." Allbaugh, who went on to direct the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the Bush administration, said he doesn't even know who the "goober" is, referring to Burkett.
James denied any reports were altered, according to The New York Times.
Burkett said that the day after he overhead Allbaugh's request, he heard James convey a directive to the state services officer to gather Bush's files and go through them. Then, about 10 days later, he said, he came across "files on a table."
"But I also saw at the edge of that table a roughly 15-gallon, old metal waste can. At the top of that were several pages, 20 to 40 pages approximately," Burkett said on CNN's "Paula Zahn Now."
"I glanced down at the top of those documents. In ink was the word 'Bush, George W., 1 Lt.' This was a performance report. I was right at the trash can. I filtered through the top five or six pages in that, and they were all copies and originals of old performance documents and pay records for 'Bush, George W., 1 Lt."
Burkett said he was disheartened after the incident. "All of those efforts, I felt, had been -- had undermined our cause," said Burkett, who had worked to make the Texas National Guard more efficient.
"I'm not going to get in the mud. You know, this has become a political football," he told CNN. "I'm here to tell you the same facts that I said, and I reported, and I have worked through the state legislative system in the state of Texas," Burkett said.
"This is no new allegation, this is no new case, and this is no new fact. The fact is the same today as it was in 1997. And God is my pilot, and God is in my foxhole."
Burkett's claims about Bush's records were also made in a 1998 letter to a Democratic congressman, according to the Times. In the letter, Burkett complained that his battle over medical care with the Guard led to his being hospitalized for depression.
White House communications director Dan Bartlett, who as an aide to then-Gov. Bush handled the records in 1990s, on Wednesday called Burkett's allegations an "outrageously false statement," according to the Times.
White House officials referred to Burkett as an unhappy former guardsman who had a falling out with his superiors, the paper said.
Burkett is quoted in an upcoming book, "Bush's War for Re-election," by James Moore. Moore said Burkett's "reputation is impeccable."
"And we know that the president's record in terms of his grounding as a pilot is missing. The final points totals are missing. Any medical records are missing. And a retirement statement, in terms of the points he earned, is missing," Moore said.
Questions about Bush's Guard service have intensified in recent weeks after Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe said Bush was AWOL, or absent without leave, from his Air National Guard service during a period from May 1972 to May 1973 when he was transferred from Texas to Alabama so he could work on a Senate political campaign.
The White House has fought back, releasing records it says prove Bush fulfilled his requirements and was honorably discharged. Most recently, the White House released a document showing that Bush got a dental exam at the Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Alabama on January 6, 1973. (Full story)
"This again shows he was there, he served in Alabama. He was honorably discharged," said White House press secretary Scott McClellan.
Burkett's allegations were on some Internet web sites just before the 2000 presidential election but were largely unreported by conventional media, according to USA Today.
But questions have lingered since that year's presidential campaign, after the Boston Globe uncovered a May 1973 evaluation by Bush's commander stating that the first lieutenant had not been seen during the previous year.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux contributed to this report.
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